ANNEALING... some observations and questions

[JOE REGANATO]

First post, new member. I find myself in the NEED to anneal my ass... brass... sorry... I joined a club, Manatee Shooting club, near bradenton FL. They had a 1000 yrd range so I built a 1000 yard gun... I bought some Pmc ammo to start out and now I have graduated to LAPUA brass and premium reloading components... Back to annealing...
I have selected the bench source annealer, for many reasons.. Two torches, brass is held with neck up and spun when in the flame, quiet, professionally made (does not look like a DYI project), time select, etc...

QUESTIONS: Bottom line, i am annealing 308 brass. And based on two torches, how much time should the brass stay in the flame? I believe, 1-3 seconds will NOT anneal the neck.... Some where between 3-5 seconds WILL relieve stress, but maybe not acchieve a good soft/hard ratio... I realize that if the brass is warm or cold or if the room im doing the annealing is cold/hot, that will change the timing... Im looking for the boundaries. I wont be annealing for 1-3 seconds, and I wont be annealing for 7 or more seconds...

Tempilaq: its interesting that use of this product is so VARIED in usage teperature. And it ONLY tells you what the brass WAS NOT... I have seen youtube videos, showing the usage of this product from 450 to 750... AND I understand the usage... 450 on outside, to make sure the bottom of the cartrige does not get heated. 650 on the outside to see how far down the annealing went... AND 750 on the inside of neck to make sure the neck was NOT over done... Now the stuff IS NOT CHEAP. ANND I understand the stuff is not stable, GOES BAD... Does refrigeration help preserve it? Any way how do you use it? Since I plan to be judicious in my flame timing, I only intend on using the 750 in the neck... as long as I dont blow that , I should be OK

OBSERVATIONS: Im suprised that the AMP annealer, anneals cartridges up side down... Just seems bass aquards... I know not enough time for heat to reach the head, but such an obvious error in design, for such an expensive machine...

Water quelching, or NOT quelching, as brass does not quelch. MOST annealers are stead fast in do or DONT. I plan on not doing it and air dry BUTTTT... i plan on using an open cooling trays (3), and will not let the brass pile up...

 

[Comrade Terry]

Welcome aboard, Joe!

 

[JRS]

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

 

[retired]

your "observation " is in error.
have you used the machine ?
answer me this if you put the case in base first, and anneal the top/neck,
HOW DO YOU TAKE OUT THE VERY HOT CASE ?

the machine uses a shell holder case holder goes on the base drop in the case
guide, hit start button, lift completed case by the case holder....look ma not burnt fingers!
we are talking seconds to load/anneal/remove...then repeat.


QUOTE="JOE REGANATO, post: 37134269, member: 1306906"]e seconds...


OBSERVATIONS: Im suprised that the AMP annealer, anneals cartridges up side down... Just seems bass aquards... I know not enough time for heat to reach the head, but such an obvious error in design, for such an expensive machine...

[/QUOTE]

 

[divingin]

How long depends on how your torches are running and where they're hitting the case (and how thick the brass is - I notice a difference when running mixed brass; Win brass heats much faster than just about everything else.)

Not sure how your machine works, but I run mine (AnnealEez) slowish in a darkened room, then adjust either dwell time or flame until I see a hint of glow to the case mouth and back it off a bit.

 

[JRS]

Different brands of brass will require a different length of time and heat due to the makeup of the brass.

 

[riflewoman]

Brass does Not change its metallurgy from being quenched. What quenching does is stop grain growth that happens in an above critical temperature anneal. If you soften the brass or reach a temperature at which most of these annealing systems operate you are above critical annealing temperature.

So you will get grain growth. Grain growth can be bad as large drains don’t deform uniformly.... as long as there is sufficient heat grains will grow. There’s some evidence that brass will self anneal at room temperature but you time it with a calendar. There is a SIGNIFICANT temperature and time inverse relationship. So the time it sits in the cooling tray is another variable. Quenching stops the process and puts it back into the “calendar” time cycle.

As always YMMV.

 

[spife7980]

You point the torches to the middle of the shoulder-neck shoulder junction. Put the heat into that section as the small neck will heat up much faster than the shoulders will. Putting it in the shoulders will even out the differences between the neck and shoulder to hopefully make a more consistent end product.
You will put the 750 inside the neck so that the hot flame doesnt turn it instantly, this tells you when the brass gets to temp. Time is the variable so you will adjust it so that your brass drops out right as the tempilaq starts to burn/turn clear. This ensures that you get to a minimum of 750 which will start the big change in its properties. A bit hotter than this wont ruin it, just dont leave it in the flame a full second or two past when the tempilaq turns. Even then youll be fine though, just not ideal.

The 400-350 down on the lower case body ensures that too much heat isnt flowing out of the neck/shoulder and into the case head, once you do it a time or two you will see that it is unlikely to get too hot too low on the body unless you purposefully mess up the torches aim or do something funky.

 

[Webster]

First post, new member. I find myself in the NEED to anneal my ass... brass... sorry... I joined a club, Manatee Shooting club, near bradenton FL. They had a 1000 yrd range so I built a 1000 yard gun... I bought some Pmc ammo to start out and now I have graduated to LAPUA brass and premium reloading components... Back to annealing...
I have selected the bench source annealer, for many reasons.. Two torches, brass is held with neck up and spun when in the flame, quiet, professionally made (does not look like a DYI project), time select, etc...

QUESTIONS: Bottom line, i am annealing 308 brass. And based on two torches, how much time should the brass stay in the flame? I believe, 1-3 seconds will NOT anneal the neck.... Some where between 3-5 seconds WILL relieve stress, but maybe not acchieve a good soft/hard ratio... I realize that if the brass is warm or cold or if the room im doing the annealing is cold/hot, that will change the timing... Im looking for the boundaries. I wont be annealing for 1-3 seconds, and I wont be annealing for 7 or more seconds...

Tempilaq: its interesting that use of this product is so VARIED in usage teperature. And it ONLY tells you what the brass WAS NOT... I have seen youtube videos, showing the usage of this product from 450 to 750... AND I understand the usage... 450 on outside, to make sure the bottom of the cartrige does not get heated. 650 on the outside to see how far down the annealing went... AND 750 on the inside of neck to make sure the neck was NOT over done... Now the stuff IS NOT CHEAP. ANND I understand the stuff is not stable, GOES BAD... Does refrigeration help preserve it? Any way how do you use it? Since I plan to be judicious in my flame timing, I only intend on using the 750 in the neck... as long as I dont blow that , I should be OK

OBSERVATIONS: Im suprised that the AMP annealer, anneals cartridges up side down... Just seems bass aquards... I know not enough time for heat to reach the head, but such an obvious error in design, for such an expensive machine...

Water quelching, or NOT quelching, as brass does not quelch. MOST annealers are stead fast in do or DONT. I plan on not doing it and air dry BUTTTT... i plan on using an open cooling trays (3), and will not let the brass pile up...

I now anneal with 1 torch 5 seconds, may go to 7 or 8? No danger of overheating. I used to anneal for 9 sec. with out a problem but the tips of the neck were getting red. No idea what the hardness is. I have over 20 reloads. Rifle used for GH hunting. I expect all groups under .400". Annealing is based on time at temperature. 1-3 seconds may not even stress relieve. Your probably below 700F at 3 seconds?

 

[6BRA]

Are you turning your necks? What thickness? You can go 4 to 5 seconds no worries at .01225. Turn them orange and even into the shoulders no worries. Don't go past shoulders with the orange.jmo

 

[RegionRat]

@Webster @x47Mike , that thread is from 2018 and the OP made one post and hasn't been seen since Feb 25, 2018. Just FYI since it is unlikely you will get a response from him.

 

[6BRA]

Someone brought it back to the top of the board 1 post before me. I didn't pay attn to OP date.