Annealing question..

[ChadCollins]

So I read many many threads on annealing here. I used some waste brass set it up to where the neck would just start to turn orange then backed it off about a half second to where it would not. What I did not do is drop brass into water to stop the heat. Some do it, some don't....I'm working on 6BR brass so its short....

Did I ruit my 6BR brass? I continued reading more and more and read a very good article posted here and it made me start thinking if I might not should shoot it or not? like I might blow my gun up?

The necks didn't even change to the brassy blue color like you see when they are new. Maybe a little, but not totally. Some .223 brass I annealed using the same method did change to the brassy blue color.

Thanks,

Chad

 

[dickn52]

Color has nothing to do with the annealing process, though some brass may change. It is not an indicator of the amount of annealing done. You need some of that gloriously expensive Tempilac at 600-700 degree F. ****edit****. I meant the blue color you were looking for. IF your brass turned orange or red in the flame, you did in fact go too long and MAY have ruined the brass.

 

[Texas10]

Freshly polished brass will tend to not change color so much as more dull colored brass. That may explain what you're seeing.

I switched to salt bath annealing to eliminate the possibility of ruining my brass.

Here's a write up on the process:http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/salt-bath-annealing-pros-and-cons.3957016/

 

[JFrank]

So I read many many threads on annealing here. I used some waste brass set it up to where the neck would just start to turn orange then backed it off about a half second to where it would not. What I did not do is drop brass into water to stop the heat. Some do it, some don't....I'm working on 6BR brass so its short....

Did I ruit my 6BR brass? I continued reading more and more and read a very good article posted here and it made me start thinking if I might not should shoot it or not? like I might blow my gun up?

The necks didn't even change to the brassy blue color like you see when they are new. Maybe a little, but not totally. Some .223 brass I annealed using the same method did change to the brassy blue color.

Thanks,

Chad

I'm no expert on annealing however I don't believe you will blow up your rifle, you would notice a NT difference when seating, that's what I've seen.

Others perhaps will chime in and correct me .
J

 

[dcali]

There are two kinds of color here. One is the glow that the brass gives off when very hot. I assume this is what you're talking about, and is related to temperature, although I don't know how to quantify that with any precision. "Dull red" seems to be a standard many use. It is very difficult to catch a medium hardness going by the color of the glow. I would guess most people using this method are basically fully annealing their necks.

The other is the color of the oxidation left over on the cooled brass (like you see with new Lapua brass). This has almost nothing to do with the temperature reached, other than it got hot. This tarnish will appear at relatively low temperatures over time.

As for safety, if you do not get the case head and the area in front of it over the annealing critical temperature (somewhere north of 600 F - again hard to quantify precisely), it will be fine. If you do get the case head that hot and anneal the case head, you will have ruined your brass and it should be thrown away - it's no longer safe to fire, as the strength may have dropped to as little as 20% of it's original strength.

Dropping it into water does nothing but cool it off and make it wet. Do or don't. It doesn't matter.

 

[ChadCollins]

When I set it up on trash brass I set the time to heat to just before the brass started a dull red glow. My 6BR brass never glowed. How hot the base got who knows? Templaq is the only way to tell. I just went by fellas that used templaq for the first few times and then knew what to look for... I attempted to stay on the conservative side, but I was surprised how long the brass stayed hot and started thinking more about how much heat transferred down the case...??? I don't think the bases got to the morph point, but its hard to say. I called a welding supply shop and they have some temp sticks at 450 degrees. I can get one of those today and test since the setup is still where I left it last night. Should give me an idea anyways of possibly how hot the bottom half of the case got.

Chad

 

[dickn52]

When I set it up on trash brass I set the time to heat to just before the brass started a dull red glow. My 6BR brass never glowed. How hot the base got who knows? Templaq is the only way to tell. I just went by fellas that used templaq for the first few times and then knew what to look for... I attempted to stay on the conservative side, but I was surprised how long the brass stayed hot and started thinking more about how much heat transferred down the case...??? I don't think the bases got to the morph point, but its hard to say. I called a welding supply shop and they have some temp sticks at 450 degrees. I can get one of those today and test since the setup is still where I left it last night. Should give me an idea anyways of possibly how hot the bottom half of the case got.

Chad

Think like this. The neck and shoulder need to be heated to xxx* F. Tempilac will tell you when that happens. UNLESS you are applying the same heat source to the base, it won't get that hot and ruin itself. This is stuff some of us have been doing a long time now, and it's good that you are asking questions.

 

[Webster]

So I read many many threads on annealing here. I used some waste brass set it up to where the neck would just start to turn orange then backed it off about a half second to where it would not. What I did not do is drop brass into water to stop the heat. Some do it, some don't....I'm working on 6BR brass so its short....

Did I ruit my 6BR brass? I continued reading more and more and read a very good article posted here and it made me start thinking if I might not should shoot it or not? like I might blow my gun up?

The necks didn't even change to the brassy blue color like you see when they are new. Maybe a little, but not totally. Some .223 brass I annealed using the same method did change to the brassy blue color.

Thanks,

Chad

Your talking about the heat color of the brass. Some of the replies seem to think your talking about the cold oxide color. Anywhere below orange color should be fine. I would back off 1 second since it's hard to control torch temp and time. I used to heat with a torch for 9 sec and I noticed the very edge of the neck was slight orange, I backed off all the way to 5 sec.

So I read many many threads on annealing here. I used some waste brass set it up to where the neck would just start to turn orange then backed it off about a half second to where it would not. What I did not do is drop brass into water to stop the heat. Some do it, some don't....I'm working on 6BR brass so its short....

Did I ruit my 6BR brass? I continued reading more and more and read a very good article posted here and it made me start thinking if I might not should shoot it or not? like I might blow my gun up?

The necks didn't even change to the brassy blue color like you see when they are new. Maybe a little, but not totally. Some .223 brass I annealed using the same method did change to the brassy blue color.

Thanks,

Chad

The case color doesn’t mean a lot. The cold color depends mostly on what trace amounts of chemicals are on the surface. Clean some of the necks and shoulders with 0000 steel wool, then wipe with isopropyl alcohol. The resulting color after annealing will be just copper oxide. I x-rayed some steel wool at work it has an anti-rust chemical on it so that it won’t turn rust red on store shelves. A slight hint of red shouldn’t ruin a case but I would definitely try to avoid it.

I would anneal 1 sec. less than you see red to play it safe. It’s hard to control torch temp for consistently avoiding getting red.

A hint of red may occur at 1000F? 1050F is a definite red. I friend of mine was a PHD consultant to the copper industry. He told me 1050F was red. Depends what you call red, dull, bright ect.

Attached is a chart of time and temp VS microhardness converted to Hardness Rockwell “B” scale. I didn’t know how long the sample would take to get to temp so I annealed at 15 sec and 5 minutes. I wanted to limit the number of samples. You can see from the chart that you have to be 15 sec. at about 950F before the hardness starts to drop at a faster rate. The chart also indicates that practically zero annealing takes place 15 sec at 750F. Even 5 min at 800F not much hardness change.

I will not respond to any questions on this. I am tired of pissing matches and insults.

Added later: The case necks where annealed in a high quality lab furnace. Constant temp. Cannot do this with a torch or induction annealer.

 

[Murray Brook]

I.ve purchased this set up . Works great.

http://ballisticrecreations.ca/

 

[6MMsteve]

I just anneal for better seating, that's it

 

[joshb]

So I read many many threads on annealing here. I used some waste brass set it up to where the neck would just start to turn orange then backed it off about a half second to where it would not. What I did not do is drop brass into water to stop the heat. Some do it, some don't....I'm working on 6BR brass so its short....

Did I ruit my 6BR brass? I continued reading more and more and read a very good article posted here and it made me start thinking if I might not should shoot it or not? like I might blow my gun up?

The necks didn't even change to the brassy blue color like you see when they are new. Maybe a little, but not totally. Some .223 brass I annealed using the same method did change to the brassy blue color.

Thanks,

Chad

By my reading your description, no. You didn’t ruin your brass. I used to use the “socket and drill” method. I’d get set up, then turn off the lights. I’d heat the brass until it just started to glow red and stop. I never had a problem. I finally bought an annealer and templaq. The amount of money I pour into Lapua brass, bullets, powder and guns made the decision a no-brainer.

 

[ChadCollins]

Your talking about the heat color of the brass. Some of the replies seem to think your talking about the cold oxide color. Anywhere below orange color should be fine. I would back off 1 second since it's hard to control torch temp and time. I used to heat with a torch for 9 sec and I noticed the very edge of the neck was slight orange, I backed off all the way to 5 sec.


The case color doesn’t mean a lot. The cold color depends mostly on what trace amounts of chemicals are on the surface. Clean some of the necks and shoulders with 0000 steel wool, then wipe with isopropyl alcohol. The resulting color after annealing will be just copper oxide. I x-rayed some steel wool at work it has an anti-rust chemical on it so that it won’t turn rust red on store shelves. A slight hint of red shouldn’t ruin a case but I would definitely try to avoid it.

I would anneal 1 sec. less than you see red to play it safe. It’s hard to control torch temp for consistently avoiding getting red.

A hint of red may occur at 1000F? 1050F is a definite red. I friend of mine was a PHD consultant to the copper industry. He told me 1050F was red. Depends what you call red, dull, bright ect.

Attached is a chart of time and temp VS microhardness converted to Hardness Rockwell “B” scale. I didn’t know how long the sample would take to get to temp so I annealed at 15 sec and 5 minutes. I wanted to limit the number of samples. You can see from the chart that you have to be 15 sec. at about 950F before the hardness starts to drop at a faster rate. The chart also indicates that practically zero annealing takes place 15 sec at 750F. Even 5 min at 800F not much hardness change.

I will not respond to any questions on this. I am tired of pissing matched and insults.

View attachment 1072412

Much thanks to everyone’s reply’s! I feel better that I didn’t ruin my brass!
Now time will tell and I hope the seating is more consistent!!!

 

[6MMsteve]

split necks will leave the barnyard also, I shoot a 220 swift and I use to think back in my younger days it was just hard on necks, but after joining Acc Shooter I learned that necks will last a long time after annealing..... primer pockets not so much

 

[SmokinJoe]

Also it would help to know what annealer you are using, and exactly what turned orange. One of the things I look for when annealing is the color of the flame. When the brass gets to the point of "too hot" there will be some ionization in the flame producing a yellow /orange color. I then back the dwell time, or flame, down so I don't get that color change and get good annealing.