annealing berger vlds

[lpreddick]

i hunt varmints...ghogs. i like to use high bc bullets and i hollowpoint them to cause immediate disruption inside the animal. i just saw a video of "annealing" a berger vld to cause disruption after impact, but no evidence was presented that this happens. annealing softens brass (copper/zinc alloy) so i can see that the copper jaket might respond accordingly and soften when heated to the appropriate temp. anybody know anything about this process and results?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

A friend does this to improve performance at extended range. He's tested them and says it definitely helps. I would put them in water up to the ogive and heat them until you see a slight color change and test them.

 

[CatShooter]

i hunt varmints...ghogs. i like to use high bc bullets and i hollowpoint them to cause immediate disruption inside the animal. i just saw a video of "annealing" a berger vld to cause disruption after impact, but no evidence was presented that this happens. annealing softens brass (copper/zinc alloy) so i can see that the copper jaket might respond accordingly and soften when heated to the appropriate temp. anybody know anything about this process and results?

An interesting thought. You didn't say which bullets you are using, or what twist...

... but jackets are fairly soft to start with, so I wonder how much improvement you would get in expansion.

The other thought I have is that most of the VLD's are very long, requiring very fast twists, and shooters have reported bullets coming apart in flight because of the high spin rates... so you weaken the jacket, you might cross the integrity threshold and bring in a second problem.

You didn't say how large you are drilling the points, but I am curious as to why you are not shooting poly-tipped bullets like Blitzkings, or V-Maxs/A-Maxs - more streamlined, lower BC, higher velocity far down range (where it counts) and they do come apart fast in woodchucks.

By the way... where do you live??

 

[Webster]

Any temperature that would anneal brass in a few seconds would be a way above the melting temp of lead (621F). You might disbond the jacket from the core. People need to quite fooling around and just buy the proper bullet. It's almost impossible to find any selection of bullets in the stores. Sierra hasn't shipped to my local store in a year. I used to shoot the Sierra 85 HPBT in my 6mm Rem. they work well on GH. It's probably the easiest to find heavy varmint bullet available. I don't know what's in the stores for Hornady and Nosler. I am surprised that a hollow point tool does a good job. Factory varmint bullets have a lot more done to them than a hole drilled in the front (softer lead, thinner jacket. If your happy with your hollow pointing tool stay with it.

 

[243winxb]

Sierra makes there bullets with 4 different lead alloys to control expansion. If you heat the lead that contains 2% antimony, and cool by tipping it over into water, the lead becomes harder by a large amount. Annealing Cartridge Brass-
Material is 70 copper/30 zinc with trace amounts of lead & iron , called C26000. Material starts to yield at 15,000 PSI when soft (annealed), and 63,000 PSI when hard.
Material yields, but continues to get stronger up to 47,000 PSI when soft, and 76,000 PSI
when work hardened. Gilding Metal is 90/10 Copper Alloy 220 Why not ask Berger? They need a good laugh. ;D techsupport@bergerbullets.com

 

[243winxb]

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Berger+VLD+annealing+tutorial.html and http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?49336-Berger-bullet-failure-test Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEisehCPtdw

 

[bow shot]

"...but no evidence... "

There's your que to forget the whole thing.

I speak this in love, lol!

 

[dkhunt14]

I don't believe that link to be true. Berger put the old bullet in the Orange box and called them hunting. They made a slightly heavier jacket in a target version and put it in a yellow box. I don't believe they changed a thing on the old bullet. Matt

 

[lpreddick]

243winxb: thanks for the info...very interesting . my only experience with bullets coming apart was trying to shoot 60-64 gr berger varmint bullets through an 8 tw barrel...puffs at 80 yds. CatShooter: i like higher bc bullets and most varmint bullets have a lower bc than target ones. my first experience with bullet pass through was shooting a ghog at 300 yds with my 6-284 shooting a 105 vld. he flipped an flopped DOWNHILL and died...a 6mm entry and a 6mm exit. the next two shot the same f&flopped into their hole. there were no 105 gr varmint bullets, so i made some by grinding the tips of the vlds then drilling a 1/16 hole through the copper jacket into the small empty space. i shot one gallon milk jugs filled with wet newspaper at 1000 yds . the target vld made a 2-3 n hole while the hp produced a huge opening and cavity the size of a grapefruuit. the field tests were good but still had exit wounds...energy going out the ghog. i'm currently drilling a 5/64 hole in 68 gr cheeks and etting 3450 fps in my 6nnBR. chest shots out to 247 yds and no exit...total dumping of 1000 ft-lbs + into the animal. a gut shot is bad...gut mostly water and it explodes, chest is air and the energy seems to be contained. the process takes some time but i can only kill 80 or less ghogs a year. i do not like a crawl away.

 

[GrocMax]

6mm 105 Amax works pretty darned good downrange on varmints, have you tried them?

 

[nastynatesfish]

I think a 6-264 is asking a bit much to have the bullet expand completely inside of a 3-4" deep varmint. Why not just a 243ai or something with a varmint bullet? And the Bergers are said to penetrate 3-4" then expand anyhow. I wouldn't be wasting 45 bucks a box of bullets fist to try and make the target bullet a varmint bullet. IMO

 

[CatShooter]

"... CatShooter: i like higher bc bullets and most varmint bullets have a lower bc than target ones. my first experience with bullet pass through was shooting a ghog at 300 yds with my 6-284 shooting a 105 vld. he flipped an flopped DOWNHILL and died...a 6mm entry and a 6mm exit. the next two shot the same fliping&flopped into their hole. there were no 105 gr varmint bullets, so i made some by grinding the tips of the vlds then drilling a 1/16 hole through the copper jacket into the small empty space. i shot one gallon milk jugs filled with wet newspaper at 1000 yds. The target VLD made a 2-3 inch hole while the hp produced a huge opening and cavity the size of a grapefruit. the field tests were good but still had exit wounds...energy going out the ghog. i'm currently drilling a 5/64 hole in 68 gr cheeks and getting 3450 fps in my 6mBR. chest shots out to 247 yds and no exit...total dumping of 1000 ft-lbs + into the animal. a gut shot is bad...gut mostly water and it explodes, chest is air and the energy seems to be contained. the process takes some time but i can only kill 80 or less ghogs a year. i do not like a crawl away.

If you are drilling 5/64" holes in 68gr bullets, I gari-damn-tee you, that you are not shooting a high BC bullet.

You would be far better served by the 65 V-Max, the 70gr BLitzKing, or the 75gr V-Max

They have a higher BC and are designed to come apart on contact.

 

[GrocMax]

Higher BC 6mm varmint bullets- 105 amax, 87 vmax, 88 Berger. The Berger will be the worst hole-poker of the three, gotta hit 'em square, but they shoot very well for most. The 105 amax works surprisingly well on varmints for most people.

 

[searcher]

I would strongly recommend not annealing the bullets, especially if you have a muzzle brake and/or have ever had a tendency to not wear safety glasses in the field. I have witnessed such an annealed bullet come apart from a fellow shooter next to me and I also paid for his sins - with a bit of copper jacket in my arm and face. Better to shoot the critter two or three times.

 

[Webster]

Do you really want to spend five minutes heat treating each bullet? They make heavy bullets for long range Varmints. The problem is trying to find anything in the stores. Sounds like you have a twist for heavy bullets.