Annealing and the carbon inside the neck.

[mshelton]

In the past I've sonic cleaned before annealing, wanted to get the carbon out of the inside of the neck. Reckon it was just the procedure I was shown and figured I didn't want to bake the carbon on there.

Well, problem is removing that carbon removes the carbon which acts like a dry lube for seating bullets. I've done the powdered graphite thing on the bullets when seating them and scuffed the inside of the necks up a little with steel wool and while those things helped I'd rather just not have to deal with it and anneal without sonic cleaning and leave the carbon in the neck. Anyone see a problem with that?

 

[SDDasher]

I remove the loose carbon after firing with a plastic brush chucked up in a drill. After other prep, I then anneal. I then use the brush after annealing/cleaning with media to remove any media or crude caused by annealing from the inside of the neck. Bullets slide in like butter. Check Jay Christopherson's bulletin article about cleaning the inside of necks. It is spot on.

 

[FeMan]

With the temperatures of combustion, which are many times higher than annealing, I would think whatever baking might occur to the carbon is done by the time the bullet leaves the barrel and annealing doesn't change it.

I brush the necks with a nylon brush like 6br to get any loose residue out after vibratory cleaning and then anneal.

 

[artbosco]

Ultrasonic cleaning is not all it's cracked upped to be. Cleans so well everything is parched to death. Went back to hand wiping rifle brass and always vibrated pistol brass.

 

[brian427cobra]

I found out the hard way that ultra clean brass is no good for consistent low ES\SD and accuracy, I vib clean my brass, brush the necks with a nylon brush, Anneal, then size.................

 

[Shynloco]

Ultrasonic cleaning is not all it's cracked upped to be. Cleans so well everything is parched to death. Went back to hand wiping rifle brass and always vibrated pistol brass.

AMEN to that. I've also gone back to the good 'ole dependable tumbling my brass using media that nicely cleans my brass. Sold the Ultrasonic to a friend who also thought it would be great to use. He too is now looking for a buyer at our Gun Club.

Alex

 

[savageshooter86]

I just began annealing. I clean brass in tumbler for 4+ hours and clean inside necks using old brush. Then I anneal and size brass. Then I tumble again for 30 minutes then clean inside necks with brush. Just a quick pass in the necks.

 

[L-46]

How often are you guys annealing?
Every shot, or every 3-4?
L-46

 

[savageshooter86]

I am doing every time now.

 

[lrgoodger]

I just began annealing my pile of 1000 6BR cases after 5 - 7 firings on all of them. I've been amazed by the immediate uniforming of seating pressure and lower ES/SD. I cleaned the first couple of batches by stainless media, but I'm having better results annealing without cleaning first. I didn't like the idea of baking the carbon in there while annealing, but it does not seem to be hurting anything.

 

[L-46]

I am doing every time now.

How is that better than every 3-4?
L-46

 

[mshelton]

Everytime means the brass has been returned to the same state every time, not every 3-4 times.

 

[FeMan]

Everytime means the brass has been returned to the same state every time, not every 3-4 times.

+1 I had so much neck tension that my final length (base to ogive) on my rounds typically had a spreadof 0.002" and some were off by 0.005" to 0.007". I just thought it was variations in the bullets and spent the time measuring and dialing in the mircrometer for each round independently. Now that I am fully annealing each firinf, they are all within one-thousandth.

 

[amlevin]

I clean all my cases in Stainless Steel Pin tumbling media and there's no carbon left anywhere in or on the cases. To dry the cases rapidly I anneal right after they come out of the media and excess water has been shaken off.

I then trim and neck size (the cases were merely deprimed with a universal depriming die prior to cleaning).

Haven't had any problems with dry seating yet and accuracy is great. The pins burnish all the case surfaces . I've even pulled a couple of bullets for various reasons and find absolutely no sign of scratching or scuffing from the case neck.

 

[L-46]

Everytime means the brass has been returned to the same state every time, not every 3-4 times.

+1 I had so much neck tension that my final length (base to ogive) on my rounds typically had a spreadof 0.002" and some were off by 0.005" to 0.007". I just thought it was variations in the bullets and spent the time measuring and dialing in the mircrometer for each round independently. Now that I am fully annealing each firinf, they are all within one-thousandth.

What was your process before you started to anneal every shot?
I have been using the sonic cleaner and annealing every 3, but have had massive problems with neck tension.
I am quitting on the sonic, and going to anneal now and hopefully it is fixed.
L-46

 

[FeMan]

What was your process before you started to anneal every shot?
I have been using the sonic cleaner and annealing every 3, but have had massive problems with neck tension.
I am quitting on the sonic, and going to anneal now and hopefully it is fixed.
L-46
[/quote]I was annealing too lightly (low heat and insufficient duration) and not often enough. I annealed every second or third firing but was a too conservative. I have slowly moved up the heat and learned that previously I wasn't getting much annealing at all. I have a Ken Light machine and cant adjust the dwell time really but have increased the flame.

 

[Joe R]

In my quest for precision hand loads I tried sonic cleaning and it didn't do it for me. Now I use stainless steel pins in a (Frankford Arsenal) tumbler and that get the cases almost as clean as virgin brass (98%). It even cleans the primer pockets and removes the annealing color around the shoulder.

Removing carbon from the process is a big deal to me because carbon is the hardest substance known to man, with enough pressure it changes to diamonds. It seems to me that any carbon left in the case after reloading gets blasted down to the back of the bullet or barrel (I'm thinking sandblasting) I know it's minute quantities but that can't help and may hurt accuracy and barrel life.

Alternatively, if the carbon is not blasted down the barrel, it must build up in the case, we all can figure what happens with successive reloads. Either way its not good and it's best to get it all out.

I anneal before each reload, it's so easy using the socket method that its a no brainer. It also insure consistent neck tension with each reload.

Another nice by-product of really clean brass is that the dies stay cleaner. Remember, that carbon is not good for your dies or mandrels either.

 

[L-46]

What was your process before you started to anneal every shot?
I have been using the sonic cleaner and annealing every 3, but have had massive problems with neck tension.
I am quitting on the sonic, and going to anneal now and hopefully it is fixed.
L-46

I was annealing too lightly (low heat and insufficient duration) and not often enough. I annealed every second or third firing but was a too conservative. I have slowly moved up the heat and learned that previously I wasn't getting much annealing at all. I have a Ken Light machine and cant adjust the dwell time really but have increased the flame.
[/quote]
Thanks for that, i have been doing the same,
L-46