Anneal or throw out

[johara1]

I measure the pencil point of the flame so it is nearly the same as possible…… jim

 

[racesnake]

Can someone elaborate on induction annealing. I understand how it works but would like to have the setup explained.
Dave

 

[cocopuff]

I have a question about this annealing thing...If you leave your cases in a pan of water and heat them and then tip them over..How in hell to you dry them out...In the cloths dryer of hang them on the line ?

 

[johara1]

Nobody uses water…….jim

 

[BoydAllen]

You are kidding, right? No one that knows what he is doing uses that method. (as far as I know) It is part of the old instructions that produced overly soft case necks. We have better methods that do not involve water.

 

[fm1947]

when you anealed you didn't say did you resize them , you need to resize after anealing the case expands

 

[cocopuff]

so,tell me,how in hell do you know when you have reached the correct temperture....There are so many different things out there..

 

[fm1947]

cocopuff, you know how new lapua brass looks , the grey tint that goes down to shoulder, well as you anneal you can see the heat transfer down for my 6 BR about 8 count, they may not be grey but you can surely see the difference.

 

[BoydAllen]

Do small batches, with some way to verify your setup, and test the brass for what has happened to it. When we were working with the relatively easy thick magnum brass, we were looking for the minimum time in flame that would fix our shoulder bump variation, and not mess up neck tension. We tested the brass by bumping the shoulders, and when we had that, we confirmed by loading, noting bullet seating effort, and shooting. For each trial we took notice of the time, and where the Tempilaq had changed on the case. We were trying to be uniform on how we adjusted the flames, how far they were from the case necks, and were they were centered.

 

[fm1947]

BoydAllen:

After you did that and you tested and checked your bump did the cases have any variation in the bump, when I say any, I mean like even .005
or more.

 

[BoydAllen]

We started out with a lot of variance (I forget just how much.). It bit us when I happened to pick up a softer case when I set one of the FL dies to size cases that went to Africa, as loaded ammo for a hunt. Some of the loaded rounds took a lot of effort to chamber. I had never seen this problem since I became more measurement sophisticated, because I had done most of my loading with calibers that did not have thick case shoulders, which exacerbates the problem. After they got back, and I learned of the problem, I did some measuring, and discovered the magnitude of the problem. Frankly, it has been a long time and I forget the numbers, but getting the annealing right took care of the problem. If I remember correctly, the variance was reduced to around .001. This all becomes more important when you are attempting to set a die for a shoulder bump of .001 or .002. The variance can make your bump more than you want on the softer cases, if you set the die with one of the harder cases in the set, or bolt closure can become difficult with the harder cases, if you happen to set the die with one of the softer ones. I never have this problem with PPC cases, and that is what I have mostly shot for a number of years, so I was not looking for the problem.

 

[fm1947]

ok, on your cases you use if PPC, BR,or 308, or any common case, what do you feel is a non critical amount, just trying to get a feel for my cases I just annealed some and I had no problems I just anneal every 5 loads or so , I bump .002 , I may vary what I believe to be very minor .005

 

[BoydAllen]

To me, .005 variation in shoulder bump is unacceptable...not minor at all. I have not loaded a lot of calibers recently, and frankly in the past, when loading for a varmint rifle I set up the die with a case, and was not really looking at the variation in bump. That all changed with my experience helping my friend load. Last night I was making some test loads for a new, non lead bullet for my .22-250 and I checked the bump that I was getting with a body die (before using a collet die on the necks). I am not so concerned because these cases are some that I picked up from a fellow with some other stuff, and if I have to toss them, that will not be a problem, but the variation in bump that I got was totally unacceptable. I have other brass, that should be better, Previously, most of my varmint loading had been for my .222 Remington, but if this is a problem with any more of my .22-250 brass, I may have to start annealing my own stuff, not what I really want to do, but if I have to, I will.

 

[fm1947]

I wrote that wrong I meant .0005, sorry

 

[BoydAllen]

.0005 is just fine.

 

[fm1947]

thanks

 

[L-46]

So I annealed 15 rounds with the drill and torch method by spinning the cases at the neck for six seconds in the flame let cool then loaded them up and fired them at 200 yards. I also loaded 10 brand new cases with the same charge and seating depth and fired them also. The annealed ones were all over the place, like inch and a half for five and the never fired brass shot around a half inch. I guess the old cases are junk. One thing to add is the old empty cases after firing cannot be re chambered without a mallet but the new once fired cases can no problem. The old ones chambered fine after resizing back 2 thou. Any ideas why?

Jay,
Can you try a few things with the same 10 cases, just use the 5 you annealed and 5 new ones, compare both lots
prep cases each time to same length etc, do not anneal again, or clean your cases inside.
measure neck thickness, this can change after multiple firings, giving varying neck tension.
check resize with bump etc, resize to allow consistent bolt close
fire them another two times, carefully feel for seating pressure,
see if groups change, this may tell us if the temp was right.
If this is not conclusive, take the 5 new cases, from the test, and anneal them and compare them to 5 new ones from another batch.

 

[jaybray]

Unfortunately I threw them out and started over with new brass.

 

[Raythemanroe]

What? Donate



Ray

 

[jaybray]

That thought has crossed my mind but I think even sending empty cases across the border wouldn't go over too well.Too bad cause then someone who knew what they were doing could anneal them properly.