Ammo recommemded

[DaveCo]

Fellers, Gary has been around the turnip patch more than one time and didn't fall off the trailer. You sure won't see me at a match with CCI or Remington RF ammo. You know what? I have shot those and know how they shoot in my rifle.

Guys:

If the OP had asked for advice on ammo for a quality rifle, I probably wouldn't have posted. I would have just liked previous posts. I feed my rifles top(ish) end ammo, and can definitely 'shoot the difference.

But handguns are different.

The all time best score in the NRA 2700 bullseye match was shot years ago by an AMU shooter (using open sights, still not beaten even though optics are now allowed) who had his choice of several .45s (for 2/3 of the match). He stated later that he always picked the one with the best feeling trigger, not the best grouping. The gun he shot the record score with grouped just over 1 inch @ 50yrds. Chasing .1, or .01 inches of improvement just doesn't lead to better scores.

But let's focus enough on the actual gun referenced by the OP, and reiterate that you should never shoot high velocity ammo in a High Standard target pistol.

Dave

 

[butchlambert]

Guys:

If the OP had asked for advice on ammo for a quality rifle, I probably wouldn't have posted. I would have just liked previous posts. I feed my rifles top(ish) end ammo, and can definitely 'shoot the difference.

But handguns are different.

The all time best score in the NRA 2700 bullseye match was shot years ago by an AMU shooter (using open sights, still not beaten even though optics are now allowed) who had his choice of several .45s (for 2/3 of the match). He stated later that he always picked the one with the best feeling trigger, not the best grouping. The gun he shot the record score with grouped just over 1 inch @ 50yrds. Chasing .1, or .01 inches of improvement just doesn't lead to better scores.

But let's focus enough on the actual gun referenced by the OP, and reiterate that you should never shoot high velocity ammo in a High Standard target pistol.

Dave

I did miss the pistol post, but I have an email in to one of my friends that is a very very good rimfire pistol competitor. I will ask Herb his opinion on this.

 

[butchlambert]

Guys:

If the OP had asked for advice on ammo for a quality rifle, I probably wouldn't have posted. I would have just liked previous posts. I feed my rifles top(ish) end ammo, and can definitely 'shoot the difference.

But handguns are different.

The all time best score in the NRA 2700 bullseye match was shot years ago by an AMU shooter (using open sights, still not beaten even though optics are now allowed) who had his choice of several .45s (for 2/3 of the match). He stated later that he always picked the one with the best feeling trigger, not the best grouping. The gun he shot the record score with grouped just over 1 inch @ 50yrds. Chasing .1, or .01 inches of improvement just doesn't lead to better scores.

But let's focus enough on the actual gun referenced by the OP, and reiterate that you should never shoot high velocity ammo in a High Standard target pistol.

Dave

Dave, you said we weren't talking about RF rifles and now you are talking 45CF. In any case Herb shoots top of the line RF ammo. He said he couldn't afford a misfire or the one round that shoots over the moon.
I've heard people say that Tony Boyer could beat us all with any equipment. Tony told me that was BS, he would never shoot an inferior rifle or somebody else's ammo.

 

[DaveCo]

Dave, you said we weren't talking about RF rifles and now you are talking 45CF. In any case Herb shoots top of the line RF ammo. He said he couldn't afford a misfire or the one round that shoots over the moon.
I've heard people say that Tony Boyer could beat us all with any equipment. Tony told me that was BS, he would never shoot an inferior rifle or somebody else's ammo.

Butch,

That's fair, I was just trying to give a sense of the group sizes that are acceptable in these disciplines.

And I did also say that reliability is the most important criteria, so we're in agreement there. I've never felt like I got large enough outliers to cause fliers (that weren't my fault), but I never competed with ammo I hadn't shot extensively in the specific gun prior to competing.

Full disclosure-on another site, someone gave the advice that to learn to shoot pistol (bullseye) you should buy a 'good .22, and a few bricks of CCI-SV. I noted that CCI-SV was the only ammo I had ever had issues with in my Pardinis. Heresy. You would have thought I said something bad about Vudoo .

Anyway, the OPs original post was "What ammo.... High velocity or standard"?
No mention of application or discipline.

So I think we've probably more than answered that.

Btw, I really enjoy your WVU shooting updates. Native West Virginian.

Dave

 

[moorepower]

I don't have a single .22 rifle that shoot's CCI as well as 10X or UM1, and the Norma match and SK std is a close 3rd

 

[doclu60]

But that's the internet. Get lots of opinions from anonymous strangers, sort through them and see what makes more sense.

Dave

Hey there Dave, let's be honest about what's going on in this thread. Until your post #21, you NEVER addressed the op's original question. I did, and several others did. All you did before post #21 was tell us and the op about how cool you and your stuff is. The original question was HV or SV in said pistol. Yet you have the audacity to post in post #14 about how that's the way things go when you post on the internet........lot's of opinions? You also post in #14 about you answering the OP's question???? NO, you posted posted about competing with said pistol, not about HV or SV. And you talk about posting on the internet and getting opinions from strangers?? Makes me wonder how strange, or self absorbed you are. My full name is posted below.....not anonymous.

Scott A. Albury

 

[1911nut]

I’ve shot a lot of bullseye matches, in the 22 part I’d estimate usually 80% were shooting CCI SV. That’s from Sharpshooters to High Masters shootin Pardinis, Marvels, Nelson’s, 41s, Feinwerkbau 93s.
Lots varied by reliability’s, duds, weak rounds but a good lot had few alibis and was plenty good enough for the 10 ring at 50.

​

 

[DaveCo]

Hey there Dave, let's be honest about what's going on in this thread. Until your post #21, you NEVER addressed the op's original question. I did, and several others did. All you did before post #21 was tell us and the op about how cool you and your stuff is. The original question was HV or SV in said pistol. Yet you have the audacity to post in post #14 about how that's the way things go when you post on the internet........lot's of opinions? You also post in #14 about you answering the OP's question???? NO, you posted posted about competing with said pistol, not about HV or SV. And you talk about posting on the internet and getting opinions from strangers?? Makes me wonder how strange, or self absorbed you are. My full name is posted below.....not anonymous.

Scott A. Albury

Scott,

You're correct about not originally answering the OP, and then getting into a very tangential discussion of things never asked.

The only question asked was HV or SV. It has been answered repeatedly.

As for bragging about my cool stuff, I'm the old fudd that shoots a 50 year old gun. If I was going to brag, it'd be about my cool air pistols. But that would really be a threadjack .

Buy what you want, shoot what you want, just don't shoot HV in a fine gun like a High Standard.

That's what I should have posted. Sorry for all the diversion. I still stand by everything I wrote, but realize it wasn't responsive to the OP.

Dave

 

[DaveCo]

Scott,

Follow up. I went back through the replies, and you did indeed early on give a very succinct, helpful, and in my opinion, accurate response. I apologize for implying you (and others) hadn't. I responded to one post I found less than helpful, and lazily used too broad a brush.

And when I read about an older shooter shooting CCI-SV in a High Standard, and showing you where the frame might crack, I wondered if we had shot together. I certainly fit the older part of the description, and I do tend to show people what to look out for on these fine old guns.

Dave

 

[doclu60]

Scott,

You're correct about not originally answering the OP, and then getting into a very tangential discussion of things never asked.

The only question asked was HV or SV. It has been answered repeatedly.

As for bragging about my cool stuff, I'm the old fudd that shoots a 50 year old gun. If I was going to brag, it'd be about my cool air pistols. But that would really be a threadjack .

Buy what you want, shoot what you want, just don't shoot HV in a fine gun like a High Standard.

That's what I should have posted. Sorry for all the diversion. I still stand by everything I wrote, but realize it wasn't responsive to the OP.

Dave

Okay Dave, somewhat back sided, but at least you didn't argue about the facts, like a lot of other keyboard cowboys on gun boards often do. You 'manned up' on this. That's an admiral trait not often seen.

Regards......Scott

 

[DaveCo]

Okay Dave, somewhat back sided, but at least you didn't argue about the facts, like a lot of other keyboard cowboys on gun boards often do. You 'manned up' on this. That's an admiral trait not often seen.

Regards......Scott

Thanks for that, I appreciate it. I really don't post just to argue, but to genuinely try to be helpful.

Best regards to you also, and good shooting.

Dave

 

[linekin]

Fellers, Gary has been around the turnip patch more than one time and didn't fall off the trailer. You sure won't see me at a match with CCI or Remington RF ammo. You know what? I have shot those and know how they shoot in my rifle.

Considering my experience with 22 RF ammo, it has been in rifles only, Win 52s, Rem 37s and one HB 40X, I'm going to try some high end stuff and some intermediate $ and lower $ stuff in my S&W 41 in the Spring when things warm up. I have a Ransom rest and may look into a set of grip inserts for it, otherwise it will be from a very steady sandbag rest.

I've gone the Green Tag, Winchester T22, etc. route in my rifles and none gave me the accuracy that RWS R50 and Laupa Midas + gives me. I have one 37 that likes Eley Match but just that one. Funny how that works but anyone with a rimfire rifle knows or eventually knows that, good ammo is where you find it.

I've always felt that starting at the high end ammo quality wise is the best practice. Once if find "the one" I can always experiment with cheaper stuff if I want. But, as always, there are more ways to skin the cat than my way.

Gary's been wearing us out for years with those damn 52's, 40x, & particularly that 37 @ our 100 & 200 yd shoots. Scoped or peeps, same results!

Gary & the OP, I always had good results with CCI SV & SK Standard Plus with my High Standards & a S&W 41. Wish I still had them but the shoots dissolved & for some reason don't tolerate safe queens?!

 

[FNSafari]

Gary's been wearing us out for years with those damn 52's, 40x, & particularly that 37 @ our 100 & 200 yd shoots. Scoped or peeps, same results!

Gary & the OP, I always had good results with CCI SV & SK Standard Plus with my High Standards & a S&W 41. Wish I still had them but the shoots dissolved & for some reason don't tolerate safe queens?!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Keith. 100 in Feb and 200 in March. Hope to see u there.

 

[linekin]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Keith. 100 in Feb and 200 in March. Hope to see u there.

Happy Holidays to you as well Greg. Should be ok for February, March I have the Indoor Nationals the middle of the month but sure hope to make it.

Keith

 

[COLT45SA]

You might start with Norma TAC-22. It's cheap, standard velocity ammo, that's often on sale. It is also made by RWS as their entry level ammo. Some of my bench rifles love it and shoot it accurately. I doubt you'll get higher quality SV ammo than Tac 22 at something like 8cpr or even less. You can then move up to the pricier stuff when you can outshoot the Norma.

I totally agree with you about the TAC-22. My first time out with a newly acquired Win 1885 by Miroku, I took less than 1/2 a box to get the rifle sighted in at 40 yards and shoot a 5 shot bug-hole. I was amazed and thrilled with the rifle and the ammo~!

 

[COLT45SA]

Vintage High Standard pistols are prone to cracking frames with HV ammo. Use SV. If you asked this question on a High Standard forum they would not be happy lol.

Everything that I've read that I consider valid information seems to confirm what you have stated, so I think it wise to follow your recommendation~!!
Thanks. My High Standards are all pristine, and I'd like to keep them that way.

 

[COLT45SA]

I really think this is pretty bad advice.

I seriously doubt anyone could shoot the difference between these top line ammo, and less expensive offerings from these (and other) manufacturers.

I've ransom rest tested numerous high end target .22s, and while there can be a difference between (for example) CCI SV, and Tenex Pistol, it is usually trivial, only statistically significant, after many large samples of each. More importantly, any difference would not represent any score differences, on either NRA Bullseye targets, or ISSF targets.

Bottom line, almost all quality target .22s, can hold the 50yrd x ring with any decent ammo.

Many people shoot Master level or better scores with CCI-SV.

I especially would advise anyone to not attempt 'group testing' with a pistol like we do with rifles. The error introduced by the shooter will dwarf any differences in actual accuracy..

The important thing is absolute reliability.

Next is shooting enough to gain a level of competence. This takes lots of ammo (and more dry firing). Of course if you're not going to compete, then reliability is really the only issue, from an enjoyment standpoint. But then you certainly don't need expensive top end ammo for that.

I've competed in various handgun disciplines for more than 50 years, at many major regional matches, Camp Perry, etc. I never saw, or heard of, someone shooting Midas+. I have been at major matches where at least half the field was shooting CCI-SV.

I would encourage the OP to post this question on Rim fire Central, Targettalk, or Bullseye-I forums. Bullseye-I esp. focuses on handgun, Rim fire Central has a High Standard specific sub-forum (featuring long-time factory gunsmith and personnel).

I have shot at various times, a High Standard Supermatic Citation purchased in 1965, 2 Pardinis, a High end 1911 conversion, a couple of Rugers, and a Benelli.

I still have the High Standard, and one of the Pardinis. I shoot mostly CCI-SV, Eley Club, SK Magazine, Wolf Match.

Dave

I would add one comment which relates to practice. I would strongly advise that if practice involves dry-firing, it should only be done with snap-caps so that no damage occurs to the firing pin or disruption is created at the entrance to the chamber~!
Excellent guidance form a contributor whose credibility is established by his direct experience.

 

[skeetlee]

I’d try a few different speeds of SK if I were you. I have several customers who shoot SK in their rifles and pistols. SK is a great choice!
Lee Gardner Precision

 

[COLT45SA]

Fellers, Gary has been around the turnip patch more than one time and didn't fall off the trailer. You sure won't see me at a match with CCI or Remington RF ammo. You know what? I have shot those and know how they shoot in my rifle.

My original question was about ammo for a High Standard "Supermatic" Citation which is a semi-auto "pistol".
I'm concerned enough to have read quite a bit on other sources, and the bulk of the relevant and most credible. claim standard velocity.
To those providing real knowledge and experience, I thank you, and my High Standards thank you too~!

 

[COLT45SA]

Hi Standard DOES NOT RECOMEND use of Hi Velocity ammo!!! I have shot them quite a bit and have in the past few years shot a whole lot of SK magazine CCI standard works fine too. In my opinion its kind of a waste to shoot the high end ammo in a pistol. I reserve that for rifles.
I have a friend that has a Citation that has a cracked frame from CCI Mini Mags. He still shoots it a little with std vel but has a Victor for competition. I have had a bunch of them and the one I kept is a 68 Citation.
I have a bunch of books put out when Hi Standard was in its heyday that address the Hi Velocity problem- we just didn't know any better back then. Gary

Thumbs up for your very credible answer~!!