All IBS LR nationals will now be shot in IBS using Bench Rotation only!! NO Relay rotation.

[Alex Wheeler]

All I can say is contact the club thats going to hold the event and find out how they plan to do the rotation. Then decide if you want to go.

 

[Hoodoo]

Stanley

It is not about getting beat. I knew that going in. It is about was is fair

Life isn't fair?

 

[BountyHunter]

All I can say is contact the club thats going to hold the event and find out how they plan to do the rotation. Then decide if you want to go.

Alex

Funny you should say that. Certain participants here in this discussion helped write the rules for that very subject in the new rulebook and then failed to ensure that they were followed in that area for their host club and the Nationals. I had never heard of anyone using bench rotatation only since late 90s or early 2000s when we changed the rules to mandate random draw and no problem with any kind of random draw.

However, look at the rule book #13 starting with line 638 for Program Announcements then line 648 where the host club was supposed to put out the Program Announcement and one of the mandated key items is exactly what their method of relay and bench assignments was going to be AND if bench rotation is going to be used. All that was put out was the "Application and Equipment List". I never dreamed that someone had gone off the deep end and reinvented the bastardized third method of bench rotation only and stuck it in the rule book. I had not gone thru the new rulebook line by line as I used to have to do to run matches and did not realize all the new rules that the LRC had inserted in it. Yes, that is my fault and that is why I am bringing it up here so no gets surprised again and you end it. However, that was a major dereliction of duty by the LRC and Chairman that failed to ensure that Program Announcement did not go out.

No way in hell I would have driven 18 hours for a bench rotation only match if it had been advertised as that as required by the rules. BTW that is another clear rule that the LRC and E Board decided that they could selectively ignore in my protest.

 

[JFM33]

Yup had it happen to me last year at the nationals last relay for both LG &HG both days .I just figured being I was new they were making it easy on me . I think Joe Salt was in the last relays with me both days also.
In a match with the agg format it makes a difference .If you don't think so then I am sure you would give up that first relay for the last.
I think if the match is run with relay winners shooting head to head in the same conditions it would level the conditions.It would take the luck of the draw out of it.

 

[ridgeway]

I would have gladly traded my first LG relay for the last, lol.

 

[BountyHunter]

Yup had it happen to me last year at the nationals last relay for both LG &HG both days .I just figured being I was new they were making it easy on me . I think Joe Salt was in the last relays with me both days also.
In a match with the agg format it makes a difference .If you don't think so then I am sure you would give up that first relay for the last.
I think if the match is run with relay winners shooting head to head in the same conditions it would level the conditions.It would take the luck of the draw out of it.

You can damn well bet if certain members of the LRC had that happen, they would have protested first day and raised a big stink at the Nationals and they would have been moved. That is also why I waited until the last relay day 3 to not screw up the Nationals.

 

[hpasquet]

Harvey was a factor. Let's be thankful for all the IBS and club workers that made it possible to shoot. Ranges have been lost because of complaints.

 

[BountyHunter]

I have one question for you how did you not discuss this with the club's that you shot this year about the upcoming event .

Stan, I just had total knee replacement, was only 9 weeks at time of Nationals. I caught hell from my doc for going and dragging that equipment around. I live now in Wilmington NC and no 1000 Yard clubs near me. This was my only match for the year. Cool Acres in GA is closest at 4 hours, Piedmont is closest 600 yards and almost 6 hours. As for discussing it, this bench rotation only was not advertised as Bench Rotation ONLY so how was I supposed to know it was even happening.

That type crap was killed years ago when we went to random bench draws in early 2000s. The LRC inserted this out of no where into the 2016 rewrite of the rule book. I had not read the new rule book until just before the Nationals like 99% of the other competitors and then did not read it line by line.

Weren't you on the LRC until recently? Did you not realize that WH did not publish the Program Announcement as required by the rules you helped write?

 

[Raythemanroe]

I had all last Relays, seems like they can do better than that.. Six end of the line for National's, really?


Ray

 

[Raythemanroe]

I would like to add that conditions were that it didn't really matter @ Whitehorse.. I feel that we can do better than a last Relay for an entire match..


Ray

 

[BountyHunter]

I would like to add that conditions were that it didn't really matter @ Whitehorse.. I feel that we can do better than a last Relay for an entire match..

Ray

Ray,

Not one match, three matches over 3 days for the tournament as LRC and IBS call it. Then you better be one of the ones to gin up an agenda item based on what I proposed earlier. I am done with the LRC and IBS.

 

[Stan Taylor]

Stan, I just had total knee replacement, was only 9 weeks at time of Nationals. I caught hell from my doc for going and dragging that equipment around. I live now in Wilmington NC and no 1000 Yard clubs near me. This was my only match for the year. Cool Acres in GA is closest at 4 hours, Piedmont is closest 600 yards and almost 6 hours. As for discussing it, this bench rotation only was not advertised as Bench Rotation ONLY so how was I supposed to know it was even happening.

That type crap was killed years ago when we went to random bench draws in early 2000s. The LRC inserted this out of no where into the 2016 rewrite of the rule book. I had not read the new rule book until just before the Nationals like 99% of the other competitors and then did not read it line by line.

Weren't you on the LRC until recently? Did you not realize that WH did not publish the Program Announcement as required by the rules you helped write?

Like I said earlier I probably should just read an observe this post an keep my opinion to myself.PS. did Georgia publish it last year just curious.

 

[Northridge]

It is a bummer the rotation fell as it did for bounty hunter & a few others it sounds. I,m a Random draw kinda guy myself but the random draw method can and does at times park a shooter at the end of relay bracket resulting in your said condition, but I would agree that that being last multiple times would be likely reduced if number of shooters are larger. Running matches and keeping track of the finer details can be challenging and know matter how much effort we put forth satisfying personal needs can be challenging. I Hope IBS nationals format can be reviewed in regard to this topic to equalize opportunity for all shooters at a given match.

Shawn Williams

 

[Joe Salt]

I'm glad this subject came up! Because I was not aware of what was going on because at the National last year in GA. I had the last relay all 6 matches and no one explained to me why that happens! And yes it SUCKS! Why not just go back to drawing your own chip like in the old days, that way it was mixed up and you picked what you got. So you only have yourself to blame.
So yes I'm with Herman on this one. Everything seem to be getting changed and yes i'm an IBS member and did not get any notification as to how this was going down.
And there are a few other thing I'm not going to mention that people were not told ahead of the match.

Joe Salt

 

[BountyHunter]

I'm glad this subject came up! Because I was not aware of what was going on because at the National last year in GA. I had the last relay all 6 matches and no one explained to me why that happens! And yes it SUCKS! Why not just go back to drawing your own chip like in the old days, 7that way it was mixed up and you picked what you got. So you only have yourself to blame.
So yes I'm with Herman on this one. Everything seem to be getting changed and yes i'm an IBS member and did not get any notification as to how this was going down.
And there are a few other thing I'm not going to mention that people were not told ahead of the match.

Joe Salt

Joe glad you posted. It seems some on the LRC think that drawing is old school and we need to change and just too hard for clubs to manage. They do not realize that Bench rotation only is part of why random draw was voted by the members. The members never voted for bench rotation only, it was suck in the rewrite.

 

[Joe Salt]

Herman PA. had to go to a drawing on Sundays because the rotation was leaving to many benches open, so we end up with 6 relays on ten benches. They put everyone in the computer that's shooting or you can draw your own. I like the old way because I'm old. Never trusted these Damn Computers anyway.
Now that your knee is fixed come to the World open next year! Selling your stuff isn't a good Idea.

Joe Salt

 

[JFM33]

Herman ,
I chose to shoot Williamsport world open for my big match this summer and I had a good time. The relays and benches rotated and the folks up there treated me great.Looking forward to next year.

 

[BountyHunter]

Herman PA. had to go to a drawing on Sundays because the rotation was leaving to many benches open, so we end up with 6 relays on ten benches. They put everyone in the computer that's shooting or you can draw your own. I like the old way because I'm old. Never trusted these Damn Computers anyway.
Now that your knee is fixed come to the World open next year! Selling your stuff isn't a good Idea.

Joe Salt

Joe I was going to try and come back to world open this year but wife and doctor threatened to break the other knee. I was only 3 weeks out of replacement. Plus did not think I could make the 12 hour drive from here. Just not sure I can put up with the next surprise out of LRC. This one really blindsided me as how far the 1000

Herman ,
I chose to shoot Williamsport world open for my big match this summer and I had a good time. The relays and benches rotated and the folks up there treated me great.Looking forward to next year.

I love the world open and the crowd there. It is a great match that everyone should attend at least once. It has been about 4-5 years since I was able to attend. If you win there you are da man!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The way I see any problem like this is, you love the sport or you dont. In the big picture this is small potatoes. We'll talk it out and find a way to make it better every year. If you love 1k BR then you need to support the IBS. It like the NRA, not perfect, but they are the biggest and do the more for the cause. Club matches are great but if you really want to compare yourself to others you need a large sanctioning body like the IBS. I have been involved in running a lot of matches. I know I have made mistakes and pissed people off. It going to happen. People that donate their time to this sport want people to shoot, we dont piss people off on purpose. Things will get better every year with constructive input. Lets change this thread a little to make it constructive if we can? I 'd like to ask, what in everyone's opinion would be the best format to run a 1k IBS national event?

 

[Whitehunter]

Alex. I did not get relay 3. I got relay 9 LG the last relay 3 times. I got relay 8 HG again the last one 3 times . As for nothing in the rule book about not rotating relays you are wrong. The LRC is saying that the rule does not say THAT YOU CAN ROTATE relays therefore you cannot use relay rotation at the nationals. That is their decision which is stupid.

As for the relay shuffle program it has existed and been used successfully without issue since early 2000s until this LRC decided to mandate bench rotation only on their rewrite of the rules.

I was told that the rewrite of Long Range Rule book was to clarity the wording and not change the rules but this is not what happen some rules were changed and when this went down it was stated on IBS website for clarification of the rules only So why and how did this happen ?