Advice sought for long range 357 carbine load

[Tacoma]

Yea, I know the 357 mag isn't a long range caliber but a buddy of mine has schemed up a 200 yd lever gun match. ( Any lever gun, any sight, any caliber. COF is 5 round standing, 5 kneeling, 5 prone. Targets are full sized B27. ). I just got a new Marlin 1894 Guide gun (18.5" bbl) in 357 mag, so it's a case of " bring what you own and shoot what you brought". The rifle is D&T so I plan to pop a 1-8X scope on it this week so as not to completely embarase myself with these old eyes.
My only experience with 357 carbines to date has been to develope some 38 spl level loads for 50 yd steel ringing (with my old rossi 92). They work great for that but are only running around 900 ish fps) I'm looking for some advice on how to best get to 200. I figure I can dial in the ( 20+/- 5 MOA?) bullet drop but ideally would like something flatter shooting.
Powders on hand are Bluedot, Reddot,Unique,Tightgroup, HP38 and W296 but I can buy more if needed.
Bullets on hand are 125gr, 130gr and 158 gr coper plated, 125, 140 and 158 gr coated, Iv'e got a smaller supply of 125 and 158 gr jacketed as well. I'm thinking the 125's moving in the low/mid teens' would be the likely choice but I stand ready to be educated....

So, does anybody here have experience with such folly? If so, could you help a fellow reloader out? I've got a week to put this togeather before I attempt to rule the match

 

[Thepng]

I occasionally shoot handgun silhouettes and nra lever gun silhouettes and 357 is a popular caliber for both. You may find more info on one of the more silhouette oriented forums.

That being said, the silhouettes require heavy loads to knock over the rams at 200. Mostly pushing 180 grain bullets as fast as you can with w296 or similar powders. I’ve also heard that wadcutters can become unstable at longer ranges.

Since you don’t need to knock down steel, I’d think it would be appropriate to push your plated bullets in the mid teens or right at the velocity limit of your plated bullets probably like 1400fps. My gut instinct would be to go with the 158 grain jacketed under a medium load of 296, or 158 plated over a stout load of Unique.

 

[Homerange]

ADI whom produce a good # of Hodgdon powders list some hotter 357M loads:

https://www.adiworldclass.com.au/rifle/357-magnum

Their equivalent chart can guide you on what you have or can get locally:

Powder equivalents

Powder equivalents Note: This table shows only approximate equivalent values within about 5%. Actual burning rates can vary depending on the calibre, firearm, loading components and practices, as well as from powder lot to lot. As a consequence, it must be understood that Australian Munitions...

www.adiworldclass.com.au

 

[jds holler]

My instinct says go heavy as possible with your bullet. If your twist is right. -- Two hundred isn't that bad to lob them in at. Mainly you want stable and wind bucking weight. jd

 

[Hoser]

The 140gn flex tip bullets can be pushed fast and they are really accurate. If he wants max accuracy, the XTP or Gold Dot are the easy button.

 

[Thepng]

Hodgdon has load data for 357 rifle load data using 18.5” barrel length.

 

[Rank Amateur]

Metallic silhouettes at 50 to 200 meters is very doable with 357 mag. I shoot 158 grain jacketed bullets (Precision Delta) using a pistol load (9.7 grains of Accurate #5), and can reliably ring rams at 200 meters with a 20” Rossi 92. Velocities can be increased substantially with other powders (like PowerPro 3000, LilGun, Win 296, H110, VV 110, etc.)

 

[jds holler]

I saw a vid the other day of Jerry hitting at 1000 I think it was. And I believe it was with a nine. jd

 

[Tacoma]

Thanks Gents, this all very helpful.

 

[357Mag]

Thanks Gents, this all very helpful.

Tacoma -

Howdy !

Outside the box:
You could use a Wilson hollow point tool, to make any swaged or cast lead FP SWCs
hollow points; if you want to finess bullet wt for a slightly flatter trajectory.

Perhaps more exotic… you can ask Cutting Edge Bullets whether you can $$$ a bag of their polymer bullet tips, that they use to provide an aerodynamic tip on their turned-brass and turned-copper .358” cal bullets. These are listed for use in .35Remington rifles. Knowing the diameter of the polymer cap’s tail ( which goes down inside the turned bullet’s cavity ) would be helpful…. And they should be able to tell you that spec.

Note: Cutting Edge’ .357” cal copper bullets have ( I believe ) a much large inner cavity diam; and thusly their polymer cap ( intended for .358” cal rifle bullets ) might not be a press or slip fit in their .357s.

It is possible the bottom of the cone-shaped cap might not cover the entire flat meplat of certain lead SWS, but once integrated on the bullet… should help with aerodynamics and trajectory; none-the-less.

Other:
If they are still available…
You could pull 175gr or 195gr swaged lead Polymer-tipped boat tail Spire Point .350” diam bullets from saboted .357/.50” cal muzzle loader rounds made by Dead Center.
( See E.A. Brown, Heights Outdoors, and other sources ). *** If you patch them w/ thin enough paper or tape, to where they will stilll fit in a .357Mag case and chamber ok in the rifle; it might be worth a try. I pulled some .350” cal 195s from Dead Center’s .357/.45 cal muzzle loader rounds, and patched them w/ Nylon Dymo label maker tape. BUT… that tape is quite thick, and I had to single load the cases that I had cut the necks completely off of ( “ .35 Remington Neckless “ ). It shot just fine @ 100yd in my Marlin M-336 XLR .35 Rem.

Whatever you do in .357Mag, I recommend WW296 as the propellant. I have shot an M1894SC .357Mag, an H & R SB2 Ultra Rifle in .357Max, 2ea M-336 .35 Remingtons; and my wildcat “ .358AutoMag “ ( .357AuroMag case neck expanded to .358” cal to allow use of .358” cal rifle bullets ). The .357Max and .358AutoMag cartridges both worked best w/ 24gr WW296 and Mag primers. The wildcat was shot from a Custom 22” SS .358” cal barrel on a bench rest grade bolt action.

With regards,
357Mag

 

[357Mag]

Thanks Gents, this all very helpful.

Tacoma -

OOOps !!! I take back what I said about potential use of .350” cal muzzle loader” Spire Points “ ….. your M1894 has a tubular magazine, and that makes use of spire points
a no go !

A thousand apologies !

Cutting Edge .358” cal bullet’ polymer tips have no such warning or restriction that I could see on their website.

I shoot their turned brass 150gr Extended Range Raptor bullet in my M-336 XLR,
BUT… I only single load them.

 

[jds holler]

I remember back when handgun silhouette shooting was more of a thing -- S&W marketed, I believe, their 686 with a four position front sight to allow easy sight change to compensate for trajectory out to 300 yards. Sooooo, 200 with your carbine isn't really much of a stretch. jd

 

[msalm]

I would read up on the Belm TC contender site if it’s still available. He wrote a lot about the performance of the 357 and especially 357 max. He went through velocities and trajectories pretty well with different bullets.

 

[ebb]

You needed a 30/30 anyway, now you have a reason, any reason to buy a new rifle is a good one.

 

[vonb]

I'm running a max load of H110 behind a 158 gr XTP out of a Henry Big Boy carbine. That combination gives me 1,710 fps. I would feel that it would just just fine for shooting paper at 200 yards. This load is my accuracy node and at 50 yards, it's cutting holes.

 

[Tacoma]

I remember back when handgun silhouette shooting was more of a thing -- S&W marketed, I believe, their 686 with a four position front sight to allow easy sight change to compensate for trajectory out to 300 yards. Sooooo, 200 with your carbine isn't really much of a stretch. jd

I actually owned one of those 686 Silhouette models when I was (seriously) collecting SW revolvers back 20 ish years ago. The front sight was certainly an oddity. I don't think I ever shot it beyond 50 yds though.