Advice on Quality Press

[MoneyWaster]

I currently load for a .308, .243, and a .204. I'm using my Grandfather's old Lyman turret press,40 years old!)with decent results. The other day I noticed that the turret actually lifts up at the end of the sizing stroke. I tightened down the turret nut to make the movement stop, but now the turret doesn't want to turn without a huge amount of force. So, my question is whether or not it is worth spending the money to get a contemporary press. I intend to get into benchrest shooting in the next couple of years, so at some point I'll want to upgrade to a press that produces competition quality ammo. I'm not really interested in a turret press, as I don't load more than one caliber at a time anyway, and changing out dies is no big deal to me. I am partial to the Harrell's Precision press because I'm a sucker for machined hardware. I wonder though if a cast type press that costs a fraction of the Harrell's can produce comporable quality ammo.

What do you guys think about this?

 

[effendude]

Money,
I'm no expert but here is my reasoning behind my presses. I have a Forster Co-Ax for my precision work,you wouldn't call my shooting precision, but my ammo is awesome). I like the floating dies, and easy die swap out. No shell holders, and swapping from small to large case heads takes a minute if you don't have to look for lost springs. I load .223 Rem., .22Lisa,wife's .22-243 wildcat), .22-250, .243, 6mmBR, 6XC, .264 win mag, 6.5x284, 7mm Mag, .308, .30-06, .300 WSM, .30-338, .300Ultra Mag on it currently. Yikes, I hope my wife doesn't see this post. I have dies for .375 H&H and .405 Win, but I don't think the .405 will work with the std. shell holder.

I'm not a BR shooter, but I shoot F-class and would like to shoot HP XC more. I don't have alot of time ot reload, and I think the Forster is an excellent compromise between extreme precision and efficiency. I also have a Dillon 650 I bought 2 yrs. ago but have not unboxed. I guess I'd rather make quality than quanity for most of my shooting. Brought home a square deal for .45ACP tonight to allow me more pistol time. I hope others jump in. Buy once, you'll be ahead in the long run.
Scott

 

[JJH]

I'm using an RCBS rockchucker and like you don't really care about the time between die changes. I started loading on a redding turret and was not a big fan of the slop in the turret head. I like the the cast presses and wouldn't mind the harrel's but I got a sweet deal on my rockchucker used almost new in box.

 

[Winchester69]

I wonder though if a cast type press that costs a fraction of the Harrell's can produce comparable quality ammo.

The Redding Boss press will do what you ask for about $110. Much better for sizing brass than what you're considering. The recommended Forster will do the same.

 

[gary0529]

Much like effendude said, it all comes down to how much you are willing to shell out-pun intended.
I have an assortment of presses and dies,no, I will NOT list them in the fear that my wife will see) but my go to press for quality long distance ammunition is the Forstner. As previously expounded on, it has all the elements for producing accurate ammo. I believe you can pick one up for well under 300 dollars-get an extra set of shellholder springs unless you have good eyes and a clean reloading room floor )
If I was forced to have just one press, would be this one.
Gary

 

[MoneyWaster]

Hmmmmm....good information from everyone. Thanks guys. I'm still on the fence though. If anyone else out there has an opinion, I'd like to hear it.

 

[GermanS1]

The cartridges you currently load are all short ones, so some of the current presses which allow for a very tall cartridge aren't really needed; even the Rockchucker now has a taller window than before. An older Rockchucker II with its slightly shorter window and make for a more efficient stroke. I use one of these for everything from 6BR to .30-06, although I have to tip the '06 in when seating bullets.

Basically, any modern single-stage press from a quality manufacturer will do the job for you. Good used Rockchuckers sell for about $75 on Ebay all the time, there are some pretty good deals on dies there also. The Forster Co-Ax is a really nice press and has plenty of good features, I've never broken down to lay out the money for one, but I've loaded a little on a friend's and it was nice. Others like the Redding are a lot like the Rockchucker and will work fine. My personal preference is to avoid Lee products, but I know that they have many satisfied users also; I just think that for a little more money you can get a more satisfying product.

 

[NorCalMikie]

I've 'worn out' a Lee press doing 'lots' of .308 for my M1A. I went to a RCBS Rockchucker. No bend or slop. Rock solid. I removed all the primer attatchments and I prime with a Lee hand primer. I like the RCBS Rockchucker better than any other press that I've used. Strong, heavy and a warranty that won't quit.

 

[MoneyWaster]

Have any of you guys measured runout on any of the rounds you've produced? I hear l;ots of good things about the Rockchucker, but nobody has provided any data. I like data.

 

[Winchester69]

Everyone has good things to say about the Rockchucker, but they're talking about the predecessor to the one currently available. The better currently-produced presses are made by Forster and Redding. Pick what you like. You don't need data - you have German Salazar's testimonial.

 

[GermanS1]

That's a very kind statement, and I appreciate it, thank you.

As for runout data, that's really not very dependent on the press itself. In fact, a press can be quite sloppy and still produce cases and ammunition with minimal runout. Consider how loosely the case fits in the shellholder - why is that? It is to allow the case to align itself to the die despite some misalignment between the ram and the die. Now, if the case were held rigidly in the shellholder, then the alignment of the die and ram would be much more important. Think about an arbor press - what aligns the press and case? Nothing at all! The case and the die are aligned manually, the press simply provides the driving force - a threaded press isn't really too different from that. The shellholder only serves to extract the case from the die, a flat plate would serve equally well to drive it in.

One of the various benefits of using an O-ring under a sizing die lock ring is that it allows the die to also move a bit during that alignment process. One of the many small steps towards low runout.

However, having said all of that, the two principal factors affecting case neck concentricity to the case body,runout) are case neck wall thickness consistency and the sizing die itself. When measuring the runout of a loaded round,bullet to case body) the seating die becomes a factor as well. Turned necks and good dies are essential to really good runout numbers.

Over the coming weekend I hope to add a little bullet seater runout test to my blog; it'll be a test of 5 or 6 seating dies on a .30-06. I'll probably use Redding, RCBS, Hornady, Wilson and Vickerman dies, maybe more than one of each. It might be interesting, we'll see. www.riflemansjournal.blogspot.com is where it will be.

 

[MoneyWaster]

German,

Thank you for your well written response. I just learned a bunch of stuff beause of it. After reading your post, maybe my money might be better spent putting together or purchasing a concentricity measuring tool to determine if my old turret press isn't actually a good press. Based on what yo usaid, it very well could be.

Thanks for the link. I'll check back to see wht you come up with.

Regards

 

[Winchester69]

The Lyman turret press probably isn't anybody's choice for precision loading. The later versions have an adjustable support to catch the turret; you didn't mention whether your press has it. I'm mentioning this because the cost of a tool to determine the press's capability would be enough to replace the press. The tool in itself won't do anything to improve your process.

I'll suggest that you find a way to check the run-out of your production with minimal expenditure. If you roll your sized brass and loaded rounds across a glass-topped table and visually detect wobble, you have excessive run-out. A machinist will have a surface plate with V-blocks and a dial indicator on a magnetic base. This equipment will tell you definitively.

If you wish to attempt to improve your press's capability, sufficient compliance must be introduced to compensate for misalignment from both the turret and the ram.

 

[MoneyWaster]

I might as well cut to the chase. Based on what I've learned from you guys, I think that the Forster Co-Ax press is what I'm looking for. I'll save up for it and make the purchase. I've been in enough hobbies for long enough to know that you may as well save to get what you want, or you'll end up replacing a lower quality purchase at some point anyway.

I appreciate everyone's guidance on this purchase. Thank you.

Money

 

[Winchester69]

The Co-Ax has a little different ergonomics from what you've been using. You will want to try one before buying. It is typically operated from a standing position.

 

[boltman13]

I also wore out a Lee Chalenger, and replaced it with a Redding BOSS, because the store had sold it's last Rockchucker. The BOSS works fine, will outlast me and my grandsons. I think any single stage press of reputable manufacture, RCBS, Redding, Hornady, Lyman, Forester, and even the new Lee will give good results, IF you have good dies and proper technique. Not all dies are created equal, and you get what you pay fore in my experience. Besides most BR shooters use Wilson hand dies and no press or an arbor press.

 

[SooStan]

I bought my co-ax about 30 years ago and never regretted it.

 

[Nodak7mm]

I bought my co-ax about 30 years ago and never regretted it.


Me too!! Never considered another, other than an arbor press..

Nodak

 

[infantrytrophy]

One of the positive features of the Co-Ax press is the ability to snap the dies in and out almost instantly. This is a big advantage when you are first learning to reload and when you are first learning to case prep and load for a new caliber. While learning and gaining experience with a new caliber, I tend to prep a few cases, then load a few dummy test rounds or live rounds for practice, then repeat several times. Quick die changes are essential for this. To make full advantage of this feature, you will need to buy a Forster lock ring for each die. Start by buying a package of 10 lock rings - they are available at a reduced price.

There are a couple of small issues that you should be aware of. When you first obtain the press, take apart, clean and re-lube the universal case holder. The factory ships this with a generous amount of heavy grease. Re-lube with Eezox or gun oil, and the case holder jaws will open and close freely. Pay attention to the instructions for adjusting the pointed screw that automatically opens the case holder jaws.

Also pay attention to the adjustment of the spring-loaded screw that holds the die and lock ring in place in the machined slot. This screw should retain the lock ring, but still allow some horizontal play of the die/lock ring assembly. This may seem counter-intuitive, but it allows the die to self-center on the case - important for good concentricity.

Finally, if you want a press-mounted bullet puller, you will need to get Forster's 'Universal' bullet puller, not their standard bullet puller. The tightening arm of Forster's standard bullet puller and some other bullet pullers will not allow clearance of the arms of the yoke.

Note that the yoke was re-designed several years ago so that extra-tall dies will now work with this press. One example is Hornady's new dimension seating die with the 'Microjust' seating stem. I have one of these for 7.5x55 Swiss, and this is a VERY tall die. I saw some older advice that this die wouldn't work with older Co-Ax presses, but there is no problem with the newer presses.

It's a great press, worth the few extra dollars, in my opinion.

Randy Sikes

(Edited 12/5/09 - 3rd paragraph - to read "lock ring" instead of "shell holder".)

 

[Mikem]

I have to agree with all of the post about the Forester Co-ax, they do cost a bit more, but you wont be sorry. I also recommend getting the optional short ball handle, for small cases,like BR cases etc) its all you will use, and its easier and faster.
I do have two other presses, a Lyman turret and an RCBS, but the RCBS is only used to pull bullets, and the Lyman turret had slop in it, as most turrets do, so I added a removable front post to stop the slop, and it did. It attaches to the .250 pin used for the primer arm, and catches under the front edge of the turret plate, and does stop all roter plate slop, but it slows down die changing. And I still prefer the Forester for everything. Except for priming, for that I use a hand primer only.
When using Forester or Redding bushing dies, I can keep bullet run out to less than .004 measured out close to,1/8' below) the bullets meplet, not the case neck. This is the best, and most accurate, but toughest concentricity test to use)
If you get a Forester, it will be the last press you will ever buy or wont.
I wish it had been my first press, but I first started reloading back in 1966.
Mike.