Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
What were your other inputs ? They may have different default atmospheric conditions or altitude. Big factor is scope height too. I have not seen a big difference using the “free “ calculators.
Adjusting MOA for Longer Range
- Thread starter Mr Wick
- Start date
There are ballistic calculators free on the internet...I used JBM for years, but there sre others. Just follow instructions on in put of bullet data and velocity.
I did this 25 yrs ago with out the new fancy Kestrel I now own, and ya don't need it especially to start with.
You have an accurate range finder and your hopefully chronographed low S/D numbers from ammo you hand loaded, and know to meet your accuracy standards.
Don't need anything else, not even a wind meter, they were useless in the mountains where I shoot, as the wind is blowing in the opposite direction on the opposite side of the canyon and can not be measured from your position...where the bullet has slowed down and is affected most.
Drop card every 25 yds print out or scope dial memorized...no hold over, or off
.. you dial until it's close inside the scopes coarse adjustmens ..coarse graduations are the best like the old USMC sniper (KISS...teach girls to kill bad guys at 1000 yds in short order ) Mark 4 M3 10X mil dot 1 moa per click...scarry coarse...no, fast you bet ...deadly too out to 1400 yds with 308 one full turn of the dial 0 to 1400 yds ...and if necessary you can shoot eggs at 1000 yds with this set up. No balistics card needed its on the scope and in your head. Once matched up you never change anything. Mine was Varget, Lapua cases LR, Fed Match, and 155 Lapua bullets purchased 3000 at a time...so you have to reload and ya have to shoot with a purpose..85 rds every week, sometimes 2 a week...in difficult weather. Even in fairly high winds...cause it's about learning. Learn to read the wind, what do you see in your target area...observe, and shoot, know tbe result, adjust quickly the damn gun ready to fire in 5 seconds.
Hard hold the gun exactly the same every time...get back on it ...now ...the bullet is still in flight at 10X you can spot the impact of the 155 easily ... you got mil scope and minute turrents no big deal learn it. 2 mil off 7 moa is close enough use 3.5 instead of 3.6 cause it's faster to calculate in your head cause speed at getting it done is a major key...up here the wind changed while you were thinking instead of doing. Paint your targets white its the easiest to spot. I like 10" painted circles at 1000yds on a rock face... you are expected to hit these the first shot with a fair amount of practice. Also get a fairly light trigger, cause ya ain't got all day to be squeezing it.The wind will have changed many times, and you'll miss by 3 feet...maybe even 6 ft. I ran a 2 oz Jewell on an old trued Rem 700 action & Schlein select match 27" 12 twist barrel...if your on target let the barrel burn, when its too hot to even touch...you definitely have to shoot within 5 seconds of loading, cause all that Varget can't stand the heat...even it will give excessive pressure. After many thousands of rds and many barrel changes you get it down...you don't even need your range finder in your hunt area. You know the distances to all the landmarks at different ranges you memorized. But you have to adjust up or down 10 inches depending on the conditions which you will learn...and get wild impossible to do again first shot hits more often. If you target an object no matter how small....train your mind to expect it hit it...if you can see it you can hit it in any wind 2 mil or less any range inside 1400 yds. A piece of cake. But ya kinda have to become obsessed. Weird things like coming out of store and noticing wind conditions... in town.
Then once you've done everything you wanted to accomplish, you get bored with it...or sometimes want to try 2 or 3 thousand yards...but it's a longer drive to do that...with a new rifle and caliber.
I did this 25 yrs ago with out the new fancy Kestrel I now own, and ya don't need it especially to start with.
You have an accurate range finder and your hopefully chronographed low S/D numbers from ammo you hand loaded, and know to meet your accuracy standards.
Don't need anything else, not even a wind meter, they were useless in the mountains where I shoot, as the wind is blowing in the opposite direction on the opposite side of the canyon and can not be measured from your position...where the bullet has slowed down and is affected most.
Drop card every 25 yds print out or scope dial memorized...no hold over, or off
.. you dial until it's close inside the scopes coarse adjustmens ..coarse graduations are the best like the old USMC sniper (KISS...teach girls to kill bad guys at 1000 yds in short order ) Mark 4 M3 10X mil dot 1 moa per click...scarry coarse...no, fast you bet ...deadly too out to 1400 yds with 308 one full turn of the dial 0 to 1400 yds ...and if necessary you can shoot eggs at 1000 yds with this set up. No balistics card needed its on the scope and in your head. Once matched up you never change anything. Mine was Varget, Lapua cases LR, Fed Match, and 155 Lapua bullets purchased 3000 at a time...so you have to reload and ya have to shoot with a purpose..85 rds every week, sometimes 2 a week...in difficult weather. Even in fairly high winds...cause it's about learning. Learn to read the wind, what do you see in your target area...observe, and shoot, know tbe result, adjust quickly the damn gun ready to fire in 5 seconds.
Hard hold the gun exactly the same every time...get back on it ...now ...the bullet is still in flight at 10X you can spot the impact of the 155 easily ... you got mil scope and minute turrents no big deal learn it. 2 mil off 7 moa is close enough use 3.5 instead of 3.6 cause it's faster to calculate in your head cause speed at getting it done is a major key...up here the wind changed while you were thinking instead of doing. Paint your targets white its the easiest to spot. I like 10" painted circles at 1000yds on a rock face... you are expected to hit these the first shot with a fair amount of practice. Also get a fairly light trigger, cause ya ain't got all day to be squeezing it.The wind will have changed many times, and you'll miss by 3 feet...maybe even 6 ft. I ran a 2 oz Jewell on an old trued Rem 700 action & Schlein select match 27" 12 twist barrel...if your on target let the barrel burn, when its too hot to even touch...you definitely have to shoot within 5 seconds of loading, cause all that Varget can't stand the heat...even it will give excessive pressure. After many thousands of rds and many barrel changes you get it down...you don't even need your range finder in your hunt area. You know the distances to all the landmarks at different ranges you memorized. But you have to adjust up or down 10 inches depending on the conditions which you will learn...and get wild impossible to do again first shot hits more often. If you target an object no matter how small....train your mind to expect it hit it...if you can see it you can hit it in any wind 2 mil or less any range inside 1400 yds. A piece of cake. But ya kinda have to become obsessed. Weird things like coming out of store and noticing wind conditions... in town.
Then once you've done everything you wanted to accomplish, you get bored with it...or sometimes want to try 2 or 3 thousand yards...but it's a longer drive to do that...with a new rifle and caliber.
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If you're responding to me I'll quote myself. "all and I mean each and everyone was given the exact same input data"
The results I got were varied, extremely by my standards, I expect a 1/10th of 1 percent as this is just math and rendering to 3 to 6 decimals can change results slightly. I've been on teams that developed color rendering engins, postscript engines and others and I have quite a good deal of computer experience.
Sandstorm
Gold $$ Contributor
Then you should have no issues. Just use one program like Strelok and get used to it.
it allowes for validating of your data and adjusting the input numbers for when its off.
once it learns your BC from your shots it is dead on for the most part.
All I use it for is to get on paper at 500, 900 and 1000 yds..dont care if its off 10 inches.
you can true it from there and its correct the next time.
dont think none of them are perfect by any means.
ronsatspokane
Gold $$ Contributor
If you know the BC of your bullet, the velocity of your load, the altitude you are shooting at, the current temp and the current barometric pressure, any ballistics calculator will get you on target. Fine tune or hold for each shot after. Providing the wind is cooperating. If the wind is not cooperating, there is yet another rabbit hole for you to explore.
At 1000 yards, I found the outputs of berger, hornady, and JBM to be within 1/2 moa. I tried the basic streloc, and it was 1.5 moa off the others. Don't know if the pro version is any more accurate. This was using a 175 .308 with a .475 bc.
Wind? On a Rangeman? Something new?
I'm looking at these programs and my complaint is that when inputting the exact same data I'm getting wildly different results.
After seeing this I got put my drop tables for my 2 varmint rifles and my 35 magnum. These were created on a range session so the values are shootingbdata. The weather conditions were recorded.
I plugged in the particulars into the Hornady program and it was significantly similar to what was developed with actual shooting. So I think I'll stop wasting more time as the others couldn't handle a test scenario.
I understand that there may be insignificant variations in conversions from meters to inches, MOA and Mill but 8" errors in drop at 600 yards is unacceptable.
Jeff Porter
Gold $$ Contributor
David are you certain they all use the same calculations in these computations ? Seems like it should be standardized but is there some “factors “ in the program algorithms that are unique to each ?
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