Addition of Unlimited Rifle (Rail Guns) to the IBS Long Range Disciplines

[Mulligan]

10 months ago, I posed a question about allowing the use of rail-guns in IBS Long-Range competitions on this website. The link is below.

Rail Guns at 600 yard BR

We have a couple of shooters who have rail-guns chambered in a Grinch with 1-8 twist barrels. Both are short-range guys who have expanded their shooting to include long-range. Sounds like they are shooting pretty good and have asked if they can shoot them at our 600 BR matches. After...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Since that post, I have had lots of conversations about unlimited rifles and have seen and heard a ton of support for the use of rails at long range. I drafted up the attached proposal to vet it here prior to submittal for an agenda item this fall to the IBS.
It would be really helpful if the long-range shooters engage in this conversation. The open dialog on this forum will help us craft a useful document to present and will ensure it is what the shooters collectively want.
Thanks for all your help
CW

 

[memphistransplant]

I can't see any problem this would pose. The rail gun is super cool. Plus, I don't have to compete against you in heavy gun. I wonder what the purpose of a brake on a rail gun is? Does it increase your speed due to less recoil? I do not enjoy shooting next to brakes, but I guess that is a separate issue. Anything that broadens the base of our sport is good, in my opinion.

 

[tom]

Clay,

I can't see why not. It's no different than any other class, and has a few words in the rules that address just that class. I can't see where soy would be any different from any other sanctioned class we shoot. Possibly (the lrc) at most would determine 18 matches for example in the 1,000 yard. Example, 18 in each class? Or 18 total? That shouldn't be no problem for them I wouldn't think.

Tom

 

[tom]

Clay,

My only concern would be whether or not to include the class in a national tournament or not. As of now some ranges hold matches for hunter/factory..ect., but they aren't part of any "2 gun". To me this will cause a bigger "something to debate" than just setting aside a place to compete with rails at season matches where a club wants to put on a rail match.

Tom

 

[Mulligan]

Clay,

My only concern would be whether or not to include the class in a national tournament or not. As of now some ranges hold matches for hunter/factory..ect., but they aren't part of any "2 gun". To me this will cause a bigger "something to debate" than just setting aside a place to compete with rails at season matches where a club wants to put on a rail match.

Tom

Good thoughts Tom,
I agree it will initiate some conversation, that is a good thing.
If we evolve into a three gun program, so be it. We can still have the traditional 2-gun and we can add it to unlimited to figure in the three-gun, no big deal.
It will be a fun to see the shooters shape this.
CW

 

[JamesnTN]

I’m all for it. With today’s scoring software it wouldn’t take much to incorporate a 2 gun and a 3 gun SOY points system. There appears to be interest in adding the class, I would invest in a rail and I would think others would follow. Some guys already shooting 600 yards have rails they use for short range.

 

[shoot4fun]

Rail guns have never "tripped my trigger" but I have no issue with rail guns in LR competition.
My initial thought would be that rails could be on the relay with factory and tactical shooters.
Just how many shooters will want to shoot LG. HG, RG and, maybe, even Factory or Tactical?
Anyway, I think if considered it should be on a trial basis for at least one year before a final decision made.

 

[JamesnTN]

Rail guns have never "tripped my trigger" but I have no issue with rail guns in LR competition.
My initial thought would be that rails could be on the relay with factory and tactical shooters.
Just how many shooters will want to shoot LG. HG, RG and, maybe, even Factory or Tactical?
Anyway, I think if considered it should be on a trial basis for at least one year before a final decision made.

I get a trial basis on tactical and factory class, Those that shoot these classes most likely already own one or both. But to start can unlimited class on a trial basis would deter many from ever wanting to jump in. Mainly because who wants to invest 8k into a setup only as a trial and it goes away. It would need to be all in or not. Not many out here has that type money to invest just to be a trial class. Also I’m sure it’ll take more than one season to get those on board to actually get up and running.

 

[shoot4fun]

I get a trial basis on tactical and factory class, Those that shoot these classes most likely already own one or both. But to start can unlimited class on a trial basis would deter many from ever wanting to jump in. Mainly because who wants to invest 8k into a setup only as a trial and it goes away. It would need to be all in or not. Not many out here has that type money to invest just to be a trial class. Also I’m sure it’ll take more than one season to get those on board to actually get up and running.

Sorry but I disagree. I don't think many who don't already have a rail gun in the closet from their short range days will ever spend that. When I shot short range most shooters shot the same rifle in LG, HG and UL. Very few even owned a true rail gun.
Maybe I don't see the motive behind adding a UL class to long range matches. Is there a hidden agenda?

 

[Mulligan]

Sorry but I disagree. I don't think many who don't already have a rail gun in the closet from their short range days will ever spend that. When I shot short range most shooters shot the same rifle in LG, HG and UL. Very few even owned a true rail gun.
Maybe I don't see the motive behind adding a UL class to long range matches. Is there a hidden agenda?

No hidden agenda, just more shooting and fun.
When I started the original thread almost a year ago, there was enough interest to convince me that it was worth pursuing. I promently ordered a heavy testing rail from Jay Young. I can honestly say, I have learned a bit along the way. The shooters I have shot with would agree, the rails have a place at the table and that the rails have an edge.
I will say that I have shot my rail with a dasher barrel in the last three 600 yard IBS matches I’ve attended and it is obvious there is a place for rails at distance. The LGs and HGs can shoot with them, so more shooting for everyone if they choose to compete.
CW

 

[caihlen]

My take is as simple as the idea that the more guys you can include in an event, the more likely you attract either spectators or tag alongs to give it a try themselves. And you know what happens then

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Im 100% for it. It should please the guys that want to shoot more, you can shoot your LG in 3 classes now if you want. Plus I always thought we should have an unlimited class to see what else can be learned about lr accuracy. I do think quite a few guys would buy rails.

 

[shoot4fun]

Im 100% for it. It should please the guys that want to shoot more, you can shoot your LG in 3 classes now if you want. Plus I always thought we should have an unlimited class to see what else can be learned about lr accuracy. I do think quite a few guys would buy rails.

The one thing I remember about UL in short range was just how few rails were actually employed, at least at the larger matches I attended. Many shooters complained that, as all UL in short range was ten-shot, they were shooting the best stuff too much to compete in LG, HG and UL.
My hope for new blood in long range BR is the Factory/Tactical classes. The PRS guys are all in these days on. doing lots of load development and shooting groups. It is now common to see guys post groups and testing results there where at one time it was almost taboo.
Bringing younger shooters to our sport now will at least help them remember we're here when they are no longer (like me) able to "leap tall buildings in a single bound".

 

[expiper]

If you want to do more shooting why not shoot more targets in the two classes we have now,,,all too often the days shooting is over by noon and then the fun is over ,,,add a cupla targets to the course of fire in Light and Heavy,,,,Roger

 

[Mulligan]

Im 100% for it. It should please the guys that want to shoot more, you can shoot your LG in 3 classes now if you want. Plus I always thought we should have an unlimited class to see what else can be learned about lr accuracy. I do think quite a few guys would buy rails.

When I ordered my rail, Jay was busy. I have talked to two shooters in the last 5 or 6 days who have ordered a rail and Jay is still busy making rails. Does not sound like there is a shortage of folks buying new rails...... my point, Alex is correct, there are quite a few shooters who will buy rails.
CW

 

[sdbob]

Dang, time to look for a second part time job and maybe a 3/4 ton pickup.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The one thing I remember about UL in short range was just how few rails were actually employed, at least at the larger matches I attended. Many shooters complained that, as all UL in short range was ten-shot, they were shooting the best stuff too much to compete in LG, HG and UL.
My hope for new blood in long range BR is the Factory/Tactical classes. The PRS guys are all in these days on. doing lots of load development and shooting groups. It is now common to see guys post groups and testing results there where at one time it was almost taboo.
Bringing younger shooters to our sport now will at least help them remember we're here when they are no longer (like me) able to "leap tall buildings in a single bound".

Nothing wrong with that. And they are doing it. This at least gives guys that want to try a rail the option. Clubs won't have to hold unlimited class matches if they don't want to. We are not even forced to hold lg and hg now. I might have a slightly different perspective since I talk to shooters all day every day. I highly highly doubt we will pull any tactical shooters into our game. If they were intrested in shooting groups they would already be doing it.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

If you want to do more shooting why not shoot more targets in the two classes we have now,,,all too often the days shooting is over by noon and then the fun is over ,,,add a cupla targets to the course of fire in Light and Heavy,,,,Roger

We already can do that in the IBS

 

[CaptainMal]

In favor of more shooters, regardless of class. Sure would be interesting to see them in action also.

Right now in IBS we have four different classes. Our group has not had to deal with more than the popular two. To deal with the other two and then a third would surely take more convoluted computer work, something we are not real good at right now.

The idea of a rail gun class is a positive. Getting younger shooters involved, especially ones that know computer technology and WILL do the work programming, printing out and deciphering the results might be a problem.

Do not want to lose what we already have because putting on a shoot would get even more complicated.

 

[Mulligan]

All,
I have received a multitude of questions via email, PM, texts, and phone calls supporting unlimited as a new discipline.
Of all the conversations, I feel two are important to share here on an open forum.
To be clear, we are only talking about the proposed Unlimited Class here.

1) In the draft Agenda Item above, suppressors are included as allowable in competition. To be honest, I am not sure they are legal in all states that host IBS matches. I have heard concern that some suppressors may not be able to handle the fast firing rate from an unlimited rifle. I do not know, but I do know some of the forum members will know, and am hoping they weigh in on this.

2) Electronics, whether it be electronic wind meters, or other gizmos (not triggers).
I really think this is unlimited...... advancing the sport is a good thing. (We are not talking about cameras or down range scoring systems here.)

Any thoughts, concerns, or comments?

CW