• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Action truing, fact or fiction?

A few years back, a friend who does his own work, but has not single pointed action threads, barreled up a short action Remington in ..204 Ruger for a varmint rifle. It gave him nothing but grief, and he ended up trying more than one expensive barrel to get the accuracy that he was looking for, that he had gotten from his other rifles, that were barreled in varmint calibers, and suitably stocked. The action face had been squared, the bolt sleeved, lug contact attended to, but he still could not get the results that he was looking for. Finally, he did a test by putting a piece of stock (not stainless) in his three jaw, and turning a false tenon that he fitted as closely as possible, to his action threads, with a shoulder to tighten against. Then he screwed the action on till it touched and noted to his chagrin that there was a gap on one side with it touching on the opposite side. At that point he got together with a friend who made an action holding sleeve, so that he could align the action with its bolt bore CL coaxial with the CL of the lathe headstock using a closely fitting mandrel. He then recut the action threads with a boring bar. Those threads were so cocked that he had to open them up .025 to get them to fully clean up. After that, my friend cut the tenon off of his latest .204 barrel and refit it to the action, and immediately saw a difference in performance. Perhaps if the misalignment of the threads had not been so extreme he could have gotten away with simply cutting the tenon threads with a sloppy fit so that the barrel shoulder could have seated squarely on the action face, but in this particular case, that would not have been possible. The fellow that recut the the threads for him, has built lots of good shooting rifles without recutting threads, and so my friend had thought that that would not be an issue, in this case he was wrong. I guess my point is that given the total cost of building a complete rifle, why would you risk handicapping it with an action problem? Yes, you might get away with it, but if you did not, the cost of going back and fixing it afterwords would be much greater than dong it right the first time. Also, the answer to the question depends on the accuracy goals of the owner, and the other limitations that he has as far as getting the most out of his equipment. It is very common for me to see fellows that have thrown a lot of money into a project, who do not want to do what it takes to really load and shoot up to the potential of a very good rifle. They they seem to think that by buying a rifle of the highest quality, in an accurate caliber,that the accuracy will be a given, with poorly developed loads, a shaky bench, lousy rest and bags, and no flags. Good luck with that.
 
raythemanroe said:

What's your point? I'm guessing that is how Savage does so much business..

Ray

Ray, I can't speak on behalf of savage sales, my comment about people who have never machined before using the phrase "its within a .0001" was not directed at anybody. I do not mean to offend anybody by it. I turn parts every day that have tolerances on journals, bores, and grooves, anywhere from .0003 to .0004. That gives you a tolerance of anywhere from .00015 to .0002 (+or-). In the lathe I run this can be achieved pretty much all day long with not to much adjustment, providing the material is consistent, and the temp doesn't change. Any tolerance this size or smaller is normally jig ground, or ground by some other method to ensure size and concentricity . Somtimes we make parts that check perfectly in our shop then comeback a week later .0004 or .0006 bigger or smaller. Sometimes things change and dont come back to where they were or should be. Stress in material and hot or cold temps. affect everything. Whether its 17-4 stainless, stress relieved stainless, 4140, inconel, monel or titanium it all can move after machining. The point im trying to make is No matter how close we dial these barrels in or how close we think get everything who is to say it always stays like that. Who knows, after a barrel heats up shooting repeatedly at a Prarie dog at 1000yds, right before the last shot that tips him over, is everything on the barrel/action is just as straight concentric and square as it was in the lathe when it was chambered? Same goes for a single shot fired at a whitetail at 400yds last day of season at -30. Is everything the same after being out 90 degrees colder then when everything was indicated in and chambered perfectly with .0000 runout? Extreme heat or extreme cold is the barrel that same as it was when in a controlled enviroment? Or does the barrel "warp", shrink, expand, or "curl" .0001 or .002? Obviously as close to perfect as can be is desired but when using a rifle will it always stay that way? I think we worry to much about things that dont affect accuracy, and alot of it is in the shooters head. Just my opinion, but like I mentioned before. Im definitely not a gunsmith.

John
 
BoydAllen said:
A few years back, a friend who does his own work, but has not single pointed action threads, barreled up a short action Remington in ..204 Ruger for a varmint rifle. It gave him nothing but grief, and he ended up trying more than one expensive barrel to get the accuracy that he was looking for, that he had gotten from his other rifles, that were barreled in varmint calibers, and suitably stocked. The action face had been squared, the bolt sleeved, lug contact attended to, but he still could not get the results that he was looking for. Finally, he did a test by putting a piece of stock (not stainless) in his three jaw, and turning a false tenon that he fitted as closely as possible, to his action threads, with a shoulder to tighten against. Then he screwed the action on till it touched and noted to his chagrin that there was a gap on one side with it touching on the opposite side. At that point he got together with a friend who made an action holding sleeve, so that he could align the action with its bolt bore CL coaxial with the CL of the lathe headstock using a closely fitting mandrel. He then recut the action threads with a boring bar. Those threads were so cocked that he had to open them up .025 to get them to fully clean up. After that, my friend cut the tenon off of his latest .204 barrel and refit it to the action, and immediately saw a difference in performance. Perhaps if the misalignment of the threads had not been so extreme he could have gotten away with simply cutting the tenon threads with a sloppy fit so that the barrel shoulder could have seated squarely on the action face, but in this particular case, that would not have been possible. The fellow that recut the the threads for him, has built lots of good shooting rifles without recutting threads, and so my friend had thought that that would not be an issue, in this case he was wrong. I guess my point is that given the total cost of building a complete rifle, why would you risk handicapping it with an action problem? Yes, you might get away with it, but if you did not, the cost of going back and fixing it afterwords would be much greater than dong it right the first time. Also, the answer to the question depends on the accuracy goals of the owner, and the other limitations that he has as far as getting the most out of his equipment. It is very common for me to see fellows that have thrown a lot of money into a project, who do not want to do what it takes to really load and shoot up to the potential of a very good rifle. They they seem to think that by buying a rifle of the highest quality, in an accurate caliber,that the accuracy will be a given, with poorly developed loads, a shaky bench, lousy rest and bags, and no flags. Good luck with that.


+1 on this
 
jscandale said:
Oh my god Erik...My hopes are all dashed to pieces. I'll never sleep again!! What shall I do??
Wasn't my tape the right color? The right brand?? I am beside myself...
I am sooo sorry that I wasted your time oh great one..I am sooo not worthy of your greatness! It doesn't matter that you just started less than a year ago...I am still soooo not worthy! A thousand apologies oh great one! You are everything and I am nothing.

Sincerely,
Your ever faithful minion,

JS


Erik Cortina said:
Chabered my first barrel today. It is a 32" Brux 1.250" straight in 300 WSM. I will more than likely be shooting it at the F-Class Worlds Championship in August. The chamber turned out perfect, .0000" runout!

Finally Erik gets the praise he deserves, as you can see he has the perfect chamber, .0000 runout. It looks like everyone can take some lessons from him.
 
boltman223 said:
jscandale said:
Oh my god Erik...My hopes are all dashed to pieces. I'll never sleep again!! What shall I do??
Wasn't my tape the right color? The right brand?? I am beside myself...
I am sooo sorry that I wasted your time oh great one..I am sooo not worthy of your greatness! It doesn't matter that you just started less than a year ago...I am still soooo not worthy! A thousand apologies oh great one! You are everything and I am nothing.

Sincerely,
Your ever faithful minion,

JS


Erik Cortina said:
Chabered my first barrel today. It is a 32" Brux 1.250" straight in 300 WSM. I will more than likely be shooting it at the F-Class Worlds Championship in August. The chamber turned out perfect, .0000" runout!

Finally Erik gets the praise he deserves, as you can see he has the perfect chamber, .0000 runout. It looks like everyone can take some lessons from him.

You are late to the party Jr. :P
 
I guess that I missed this thread. Erik, no runout to what? Are you saying that your chamber is round or it has no runout to the groove diameter.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,473
Messages
2,196,669
Members
78,936
Latest member
Mitch.Holmes
Back
Top