Which is why 70's were most reliable in rapid fire matches.
Action "Stress" - Please Explain
- Thread starter Phil3
- Start date
DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
Well this should answer your question as to if it matters..
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/
It seems the torque settings can matter and helps to tune your rifle.
(Edit) I would imagine the stronger the action the less this would help.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/
It seems the torque settings can matter and helps to tune your rifle.
(Edit) I would imagine the stronger the action the less this would help.
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BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
The assumption seems to be that the difference in stiffness between the model 70 and the 700 would explain the difference in benchrest level accuracy. First of all Stuart Otteson's book Benchrest Actions and Triggers included sections and stiffness calc's for both actions and the Model 70 is stiffer.
If we go back to some of Creighton Audette's writing, we will see that IHO, with less than perfect cases and all else equal that the action that the broadest distribution of lug contact around the circumference of the case head would have an accuracy advantage, and specifically pointed out that the 70s narrower lugs seemed to put it at a disadvantage to the 700. The three and four lug actions that have been produced primarily for prone shooters pay visible homage to that theory. Personally, I have some additional theories, relating to the model 70s tang design as that relates to perfect bedding, and how the action threads are cut as well as the symmetry of flexibility compared to the 700. This is not to say that the model 70 is not a fine action, but may explain why it is not the best candidate for a factory action benchrest effort.
If we go back to some of Creighton Audette's writing, we will see that IHO, with less than perfect cases and all else equal that the action that the broadest distribution of lug contact around the circumference of the case head would have an accuracy advantage, and specifically pointed out that the 70s narrower lugs seemed to put it at a disadvantage to the 700. The three and four lug actions that have been produced primarily for prone shooters pay visible homage to that theory. Personally, I have some additional theories, relating to the model 70s tang design as that relates to perfect bedding, and how the action threads are cut as well as the symmetry of flexibility compared to the 700. This is not to say that the model 70 is not a fine action, but may explain why it is not the best candidate for a factory action benchrest effort.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
A mod 70 may be good for nra shooting but i cant think of a benchrest gun ever winning based on a mod 70 design. Back in the day when 40x and xp actions were on the line in big numbers there wasnt a win, browning or ruger to be found. A proper bedding job and action blueprinting fixes every “problem” thats been brought up in this thread
Rifles don't have to be in a match to shoot tiny groups. They do that testing don't they?
As far as I know, no bench rest gun has ever put several consecutive 10 shot groups under 1.5 inches at 600 yards. Nor 40 shots under 1.93 inches at 600.
A Win 70 based rifle did that just foolin' around with perfect bullets.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
So youre saying the model 70 based rifles of the 70’s can still out shoot the bench rest guns of today shooting 10 or 40 shots?
dmoran
Donovan Moran
@Dusty Stevens -
By @Bart B. claims, his rifles averaged smaller MOA in his 20-shot testing in the 70's, 80's, 90's then the current 20-shot FClass records and winning targets measure. 5/8-MOA at 1000yds is what he claims they averaged (which means they never shot over 8" groups or so from 20-shots, to hold that kind of an average), and he did it shooting prone, off rice bags. He also has claimed his 30-338 averaged better then that from 30-shots (even though he did shoot it at a 1000-NBRSA match one time, where his best group was in the 12"s and from only 10-shots).
Our BR rifles and ammo of today take a back seat to his M70's and ammo......
And it appears that we do not have "perfect bullets" like they used back in the day.
He's the man !.!.!
By @Bart B. claims, his rifles averaged smaller MOA in his 20-shot testing in the 70's, 80's, 90's then the current 20-shot FClass records and winning targets measure. 5/8-MOA at 1000yds is what he claims they averaged (which means they never shot over 8" groups or so from 20-shots, to hold that kind of an average), and he did it shooting prone, off rice bags. He also has claimed his 30-338 averaged better then that from 30-shots (even though he did shoot it at a 1000-NBRSA match one time, where his best group was in the 12"s and from only 10-shots).
Our BR rifles and ammo of today take a back seat to his M70's and ammo......
And it appears that we do not have "perfect bullets" like they used back in the day.
He's the man !.!.!
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Dusty Stevens
Shiner
@Dusty Stevens -
By @Bart B. claims, his rifles averaged smaller MOA in his 20-shot testing in the 70's, 80's, 90's then the current 20-shot FClass records and winning targets measure. 5/8-MOA at 1000yds is what he claims they averaged (which means they never shot over 8" groups or so from 20-shots, to hold that kind of an average), and he did it shooting prone, off rice bags. He also has claimed his 30-338 averaged better then that from 30-shots (even though he did shoot it at a 1000-NBRSA match one time, where his best group was in the 12"s).
Our BR rifles and ammo of today take a back seat to his M70's and ammo......
And it appears that we do not have "perfect bullets" like they were able to get back in the 70's.
He's the man !.!.!
Wheres that egg shaped piece of foam?
@Dusty Stevens -
By @Bart B. claims, his rifles averaged smaller MOA in his 20-shot testing in the 70's, 80's, 90's then the current 20-shot FClass records and winning targets measure. 5/8-MOA at 1000yds is what he claims they averaged (which means they never shot over 8" groups or so from 20-shots, to hold that kind of an average), and he did it shooting prone, off rice bags. He also has claimed his 30-338 averaged better then that from 30-shots (even though he did shoot it at a 1000-NBRSA match one time, where his best group was in the 12"s and from only 10-shots).
Our BR rifles and ammo of today take a back seat to his M70's and ammo......
And it appears that we do not have "perfect bullets" like they used back in the day.
He's the man !.!.!
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Just funning with you bart- i know youre a good guy
No, but you're thinking I did. Didn't put that in print. Just that one did. With the same component suite and hardware, may well do it. Based on the records I see.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Where is it?
What? The rifle?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
Yea drag it out. Take it to a match
Geeezs.... Never said was mine that shot those tiny groups at 600.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
There's 2 things to that target that always comes to mind when I see it:
- Why is it only that same target, that he posts? over and over for so many years now and on several forums.
- He says it is 20-shots plus the 2-sighters (marked 1 & 2) but I always only count 18-bullet holes. Where are the other 4?
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1 and 2 were the first two of 20 from a clean barrel. Two sighters were put a foot or more away.
A good benchrest target reader will help you find the 2 doubles.
Lucky Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
I'd like to, at least temporarily, deviate from the M70/M700 shootout and get back
to the original post in this thread.
Again, just what is the definition of stress-free bedding ? How do we achieve this ?
Is there a better method than stress-free ?
I'm almost ready to bed a Rem 700 action and am open to ideas other than my own.
Like the OP, the flame suit is on-----plus a rain coat.
Thanks for any replies.
A. Weldy
to the original post in this thread.
Again, just what is the definition of stress-free bedding ? How do we achieve this ?
Is there a better method than stress-free ?
I'm almost ready to bed a Rem 700 action and am open to ideas other than my own.
Like the OP, the flame suit is on-----plus a rain coat.
Thanks for any replies.
A. Weldy
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