Action screw torque - interesting results

[JEFFPPC]

This is why all my bench guns are glued. Gives me peace of mind.

 

[AlNyhus]

This is why all my bench guns are glued. Gives me peace of mind.

How do you know if a glue in has stress?

 

[JEFFPPC]

How do you know if a glue in has stress?

Can't answer that. I have been winning matches for close to 30 years with my three. They have all worked since day one thanks to Bob Green for 2 and Kelblys for 1. They have worked from 100 to 1000 yards. I don't worry about what might have happened that never did.

 

[L.Sherm]

This is why all my bench guns are glued. Gives me peace of mind.

Pretty tough on a varment or hunting rifle.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Read again, and I quote myself.................All my bench guns.

 

[AlNyhus]

My question was about the ability to check them once they're glued in.

This would be a good discussion for a separate thread. -Al

 

[JEFFPPC]

My question was simply about the ability to check them once they're glued in.

Well Al, for me the proof is in the pudding. I do like the bedding checker you showed but again getting back to screwed guns, in my case hunting rifles, my criteria for them has always been back to back 3 shot groups at 200 yards an inch or under. I have had 1 exception. My Mossberg 450BM does 2 in at 200, usually. For the most part they have been 700 Remington actions I have bedded. Complete action and rear of recoil lug bedded. Remainder of the lug and barrel floated. One exception was a straw thin 6mm Rem I was advised to bed the entire barrel. I did, it shot great. It just always seemed to me glueing was making everything almost like one thing. Introducing additional components was the chance of also introducing more potential problems. I never muscled tightening the action screws so I did not worry about crushing the wood or stock matrial. I am not a gunsmith , have no interest, but only require a rifle the allows me to be competitive. Mine have proven that they do. So bottem line, I have no ability, need, or desire to chematerial. It's obvious screwed works.... glued does also.

 

[William Vogel]

Do the glued actions have no screws at all and just rely on the gluing to hold the action into the stock.

 

[Davidheart]

Do the glued actions have no screws at all and just rely on the gluing to hold the action into the stock.

Yes.... usually. Some gunsmiths screw and glue as well for peace of mind but not generally required.

 

[Bryan Z.]

Action screw torque made a huge difference in my pillar bedded rig. I shot four 5-shot groups at each torque setting: 15, 30, 45, and 60 in-LBs. The 60 shot the best on average relative to the other lower settings and not just by a little..by a lot!

 

[SKWERLZ]

I thought this was an interesting test

 

[searcher]

how do you find where the stress is

That can be pretty tricky, especially when the rifle is both pillar bedded and full-bedded. If the "full-bedding" is not providing the action support fully, the pillars will become the problem. Best to re-bed and be sure the bedding is well above the pillars - which sometimes it is not.

 

[c3d4b2]

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You should really read the tech articles sometime.

This is a practice I read which is used on rimfire bench rest rifles. I belive I rsn acrosd this practice when reading about smallbore bench rest tuning. Unfortunately I do not remember where, nor have been able to locate the information. The theory was the torque affected the barrel vibrations.

 

[std7mag]

This is a practice I read which is used on rimfire bench rest rifles. I belive I rsn acrosd this practice when reading about smallbore bench rest tuning. Unfortunately I do not remember where, nor have been able to locate the information. The theory was the torque affected the barrel vibrations.

Once I read the article, I tried it with my Stevens 200 in 7mm-08 & Savage 111 in 7mm Rem Mag.

Was really surprised at the amount the groups would open up & shrink back down!!

The Stevens liked 15 inlb, the 111 liked 25 inlb.

I've since done this to all 5 Savages I have. The 7mm Rem Mag at 25inlb is the highest torque setting I have.

I really think people are just overtorqing the crap out of their action screws!

 

[Bugs]

+1 on that little 3D printed bedding checker mentioned above. . . for 30 bucks, you can't go wrong.

 

[TheCZKid]

I ended up testing two rifles for best torque amount one day, and forgot to write down what the best setting were. Next time I took the action out I realized my mistake! Now I end up using a small piece of blue painters tape, and write the torque setting the rifle likes, and place that on the stock, near the front and rear screw holes. I can reference those when I put it back together, easy that way, it's always with the rifle.

 

[searcher]

Can't answer that. I have been winning matches for close to 30 years with my three. They have all worked since day one thanks to Bob Green for 2 and Kelblys for 1. They have worked from 100 to 1000 yards. I don't worry about what might have happened that never did.

Wondering how one knows if a glue-in has stresses is a good question. I think that few people who have glue-ins have run into such issues. Maybe that is because most glue-ins are done by more experienced people, because the "seam" hasn't been broken which could allow additional erratic vibrations in the receiver, etc.? I have never encountered such problems with glue-ins.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Like any thing one would hire some one to build you would want to be surethat person had a good track record. Bob Green built 2 of my guns, Kelblys built the third. If these folks can't build them right, it can't be done. Both my Bob Green rifles are at the 25 year time frame. They are still going strong, some day I hope to reach their potential.

 

[Olde Man]

Just for something to think about. The following are methods that I use on a skim bedded pillar bedding job. I prefer to skim bed because I like the amount of new bedding to be about the same thickness under the action to allow for even shrinkage. One case would be to put a .060 o-ring on the rear action screw and tape in the front of the barrel channel to locate the action. This seems like it would provide a stress free bedding job. When it is all said and done and the barrel is hanging on the action wouldn't there be a very slight space below the action in between the two action screws as the action bows from the weight of the barrel. When the gun is fired the space would close until it contacted the bedding and then all the movement would be tranfered to the action screws and continue loading and unloading. Not a very smooth reaction.
The next method would be to use two locating points in the bedding before you skim. I prefer too put an o- ring on each action screw and then snug the screws to position the action when skim bedding. I let the barrel droop in ist natural position. This allow for full contact with the bedding when the gun is at rest. If you position the gun vertically when it is curing it creates a different scenero. A glue in is a whole different situation.
Where I am going with this is the space and stress on the action is dynamic during the up and down signwave of the barrel. The other point is that your measurement of movement to determine if your action is stress free will probably be different because of these things. Try measuring the stress with the gun vertically. I do not have a clue or opinion about what is truly correct but after a couple years of wondering about this I thought I would bring it forward as there is a lot going on there.

 

[M-61]

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