Action Design

[sparker]

It has occurred to me that virtually all modern BR actions are designed either around a Remington 700 footprint or around a Remington style bolt. Single shot solid bottom actions have no need for such a long bolt travel. the Remington style bolt makes use of a very long ignition system that has a longer lock-time and greater mass in moving components than would otherwise be necessary. If only an action could be devised from scratch around a flawless ignition system...

Perfection can be had only through letting go of flawed systems.

Scott Parker

 

[6MMsteve]

Savage

 

[dkhunt14]

I prefer long actions so when you throat the gun out for big heavy bullets, you can get the loaded round out the gun. In BR the longer bolt doesn't hurt. Lock time doesn't mean much. That's why most BR guys found the lightweight firing pin springs and pins hurt accuracy. Matt

 

[NWnewguy]

Savage? Probably not what Scott was thinking!

I think there was an action that used belleville washers for loading the firing pin. Would certainly have a faster lock time and less moving mass.

 

[hogpatrol]

BAT L series, short throw.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Come up with a better design and itll make you rich

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

BAT Neuvo.

Seems to shoot OK.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

nobody knows more about fire control and ignition than dwight scott. the nuevo is his brainchild

 

[Robert]

It has occurred to me that virtually all modern BR actions are designed either around a Remington 700 footprint or around a Remington style bolt. Single shot solid bottom actions have no need for such a long bolt travel. the Remington style bolt makes use of a very long ignition system that has a longer lock-time and greater mass in moving components than would otherwise be necessary. If only an action could be devised from scratch around a flawless ignition system...

Perfection can be had only through letting go of flawed systems.

Scott Parker

Scott,
The solution is extremely simple:
it is to get rid of the shroud cocking system who compels to have the trigger far to the rear as it is for repeaters.
Using the closed bolt system allow a much shorter action and lighter striker mass in motion.
Such an action is some 3/4 inch shorter than a "conventional' Short Action and could be even shorter for usual BR calibres.
You perfectly know such a solution exist for Long Range single shot action and suffice to adapt it to accept Remington-type aftermrket triggers.
R.G.C

 

[JRS]

Doesn't the Marsh action fit that description?

 

[86alaskan]

EtronX by remington, zero lock time, no moving parts, should be just what the doctor ordered, but it didn't catch on. Seems like kinda what you're looking for.

 

[Grimstod]

EtronX by remington, zero lock time, no moving parts, should be just what the doctor ordered, but it didn't catch on. Seems like kinda what you're looking for.

Did anyone in benchrest ever try it?

 

[sparker]

Scott,
The solution is extremely simple:
it is to get rid of the shroud cocking system who compels to have the trigger far to the rear as it is for repeaters.
Using the closed bolt system allow a much shorter action and lighter striker mass in motion.
Such an action is some 3/4 inch shorter than a "conventional' Short Action and could be even shorter for usual BR calibres.
You perfectly know such a solution exist for Long Range single shot action and suffice to adapt it to accept Remington-type aftermrket triggers.
R.G.C

yes, of course Robert! Now if only I could get my hands on one.

Scott

 

[divingin]

Going outside the box on this one, Dusty. How about a solenoid-based ignition system?

No need to design the system. They've been in use on target guns (Olympic type) for years. Not electrically fired, but the trigger operates a solenoid to drop the firing pin/striker/hammer/whatever.

 

[powderbrake]

No need to design the system. They've been in use on target guns (Olympic type) for years. Not electrically fired, but the trigger operates a solenoid to drop the firing pin/striker/hammer/whatever.

Exactly, My Hammerli 152 Free Pistol is electric, with just a contact for the trigger (which rides on ball bearings) You have to manually cock it, and the solenoid releases it.

 

[clowdis]

EtronX by remington, zero lock time, no moving parts, should be just what the doctor ordered, but it didn't catch on. Seems like kinda what you're looking for.

A friend of mine still has one of these along with a bunch of primers. He doesn't use it anymore, preferring instead to use his regular rifles. According to him he just didn't see any advantage and primers were more expensive.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

You do know we have to do more work to the shorter actions to get the ignition energy needed for top accuracy? I dont use the shorter actions for that reason. Standard short action length or longer, otherwise your adding weight to the firing pin. Lock time has little to do with accuracy, its a sales gimmick. Look at any of the leading edge rifles that are setting group records, especially long range. You will see a trend for more ignition energy and increased lock time VS less and shorter. I increase lock time and energy on almost every rifle I build.

 

[dminn1]

You do know we have to do more work to the shorter actions to get the ignition energy needed for top accuracy? I dont use the shorter actions for that reason. Standard short action length or longer, otherwise your adding weight to the firing pin. Lock time has little to do with accuracy, its a sales gimmick. Look at any of the leading edge rifles that are setting group records, especially long range. You will see a trend for more ignition energy and increased lock time VS less and shorter. I increase lock time and energy on almost every rifle I build.

No doubt in the benchrest and f class games lock time needs to take a back seat to optimal ignition energy. When the rifle is fired from the less than steady positions encountered in NRA Highpower, PRS, etc... lock time and the shortening of it would seem to be beneficial. I think the solenoid system as explained above or an electronic system would enable the best of both worlds. A way to optimize primer impact energy and get the minimum lock time possible. It seems to me this would be the next big step in rifle action design and a big payday for the one who perfects and patents it.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

No doubt in the benchrest and f class games lock time needs to take a back seat to optimal ignition energy. When the rifle is fired from the less than steady positions encountered in NRA Highpower, PRS, etc... lock time and the shortening of it would seem to be beneficial. I think the solenoid system as explained above or an electronic system would enable the best of both worlds. A way to optimize primer impact energy and get the minimum lock time possible. It seems to me this would be the next big step in rifle action design and a big payday for the one who perfects and patents it.

True, it would seem that way. However in practice even rifles shot from position do not seem to suffer from lock time. MAYBE in the the standing position you might see it if your good.

 

[Rustystud]

Borden, Kelbly, Pierce in no particular order.
All in a league of their own.