Accurize my hunting 22lr

[linekin]

 

[10/22AppleCreekShooter]

Whatever you say Tim.

 

[Tim s]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/at...1/?temp_hash=ef045d7f89bb9addc40e8eeb1ed7f42a

Here you go Sparky, somebody that can actually measure groups, taken from a rimfire feature story on this very site. Groups you would call .100's are really .300's. Look and learn.
And please........if we continue any further with this, I'm going to have to charge you for lessons.

 

[10/22AppleCreekShooter]

Tim that is the outside measurement on all those groups silly boy.

 

[10/22AppleCreekShooter]

On all my groups I measure for your records I measure from the farthest lead smear ring to lead smear ring and then subtract .224. Some bullets on paper will print tad smaller depending on the paper use and the backer. But that is close enough for me. Now instead of ranting go do something productive.

 

[linekin]

wait.....getting some popcorn....

 

[Tim s]

Tim that is the outside measurement on all those groups silly boy.

What it means is that instead of a reticle, he measured outside then subtracted.
Read the BHarvey article.
If you think this is what he did for "actual" groups....note his reference to several of his groups averaging .195". How might that be possible since it is smaller than a single bullet hole?
I do apologize, you simply don't have a clue here do you?

 

[10/22AppleCreekShooter]

You win. I told you how I measure. I use a caliper.

 

[mrh1958]

Thank you for your reply, Drover. I didn't know the cost of all the work necessary and I appreciate your time and information. I have looked at Cooper and Anschutz. I don't remember the Cooper I looked at and can't get to their website at this time, but the Anschutz 1712 silhouette sported has the trigger I want. I know Cooper does guarantee 1/4" group at 50 yards, and I would be pleased to own another one of their rifles. If you had to choose between a Cooper and Anschutz which would you choose?

Anschutz hands down....I have seen to many Coopers not perform to their stated guarantee, shooting 1/4" groups at 50 yards is no easy task

 

[mrh1958]

I have a souped up Ruger 10/22 that can shoot with a lot of even good bolt gun 22's and probably out shoot some with custom barrels.

Thats a good group alright ,try shooting 5 groups and post those would be interesting to see

 

[mrh1958]

Guy is testing torque but using zero wind flags........he's wasting your time and his ammo.
If you have a properly bedded gun, especially a competition rifle, set it at 30 in lbs and your done. Those groups this guy shot between 20 in lbs and 40 in lbs show absolutely nothing that I can see.

I agree here, no flags, I have never had much luck changing torque on action screws, a couple rifles maybe showed slight improvement, thats it

 

[10/22AppleCreekShooter]

Mrh1958, thanks. Once I get some good ammo again, I will give that 5 5 shot groups in a row a try and post my results.

 

[10/22AppleCreekShooter]

I got a good one with my 17HMR not long ago at 100yds right at dark. Wished that one would of went with the rest. But not bad.

 

[Tim s]

I agree here, no flags, I have never had much luck changing torque on action screws, a couple rifles maybe showed slight improvement, thats it

I suppose where you have a non bedded, non pillared, rifle in a wood stock, I 've seen some varience but again, gotta be able to have a reasonable testing regime.

 

[SheepDog]

Competition groups are always measured center to center. Using calipers is great for informal measurements and using the outside to outside and subtracting one caliber will always result in a smaller distance than measuring center to center. The bullet does not print a mark that is close to one caliber. Try laying your target between layers of glass with back lighting and measure the distance from center to center with an optical comparator that measures in .001" graduations. That will give you good results for measuring true group sizes.
My .358 Winchester shoots average 5 shot group sizes of .330" at 100 yards using pistol 158 grain bullets over a compressed charge of IMR 4064. If I measure outside to outside it measures .595" and if you subtract .357" it comes out .238" but properly measured it comes out at .330".
If you are going to compare group sizes you should use the same process to measure them.

 

[Tim s]

Competition groups are always measured center to center. Using calipers is great for informal measurements and using the outside to outside and subtracting one caliber will always result in a smaller distance than measuring center to center. The bullet does not print a mark that is close to one caliber. Try laying your target between layers of glass with back lighting and measure the distance from center to center with an optical comparator that measures in .001" graduations. That will give you good results for measuring true group sizes.
My .358 Winchester shoots average 5 shot group sizes of .330" at 100 yards using pistol 158 grain bullets over a compressed charge of IMR 4064. If I measure outside to outside it measures .595" and if you subtract .357" it comes out .238" but properly measured it comes out at .330".
If you are going to compare group sizes you should use the same process to measure them.

You're trying, God love ya, but remember our friend here cannot understand that a group with at least two holes side by side, let alone with space btween them, cannot possibly measure less than a single bullet diameter. That alone should suggest whether he's on the right track.

 

[1066]

Competition groups are always measured center to center. Using calipers is great for informal measurements and using the outside to outside and subtracting one caliber will always result in a smaller distance than measuring center to center. The bullet does not print a mark that is close to one caliber. Try laying your target between layers of glass with back lighting and measure the distance from center to center with an optical comparator that measures in .001" graduations. That will give you good results for measuring true group sizes.
My .358 Winchester shoots average 5 shot group sizes of .330" at 100 yards using pistol 158 grain bullets over a compressed charge of IMR 4064. If I measure outside to outside it measures .595" and if you subtract .357" it comes out .238" but properly measured it comes out at .330".
If you are going to compare group sizes you should use the same process to measure them.

That sounds reasonable. It would be interesting, if you were to post a couple of photos, and measure the groups with the "On Target" software. I've found it to be a quick and easy and fairly accurate.

 

['Freak]

Wanna get an accurate “center to center”? Shoot the same target with the same ammo and average together the OD of several individual ”sizer” shots which are likely to measure smaller than an actual bullet diameter, and then subtract the average “sizer” diameter from the cluster’s extremes outside to outside measurement.

 

[Doc Highwall]

This is what I use to measure groups for myself not matches. What I like about it is the holes are actual bullet diameter allowing you to center it around the bullet hole that is in the paper that appears smaller then the actual bullet hole in the paper target.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/shootin...p-measuring-caliper-attachment-prod38778.aspx

 

[SheepDog]

That sounds reasonable. It would be interesting, if you were to post a couple of photos, and measure the groups with the "On Target" software. I've found it to be a quick and easy and fairly accurate.

Well, I could scan a couple of targets but someone else would have to run the software unless it will run on a Linux system. (We don't do windows at my house)