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Accurize my hunting 22lr

I was wrong Ultra Match's. They are as old as the rifle. Back when you could buy anything at True Value including Match 22 ammo..I had a few boxes and went back for more and they told me they had quit making it. so I saved a few from my last box and still have them today cant bring my self to shoot them.IMG_0798.jpg IMG_0799.jpg IMG_0800.jpg
 
On the left was my Rem 547 Classic and the right was my Win 52B sporter(repro). awesome rifles. I came on some hard times and had to part with them both but still have that Marlin 25N.IMG_0529.jpg
 
I mean I could of sold one of my 6XC and kept them 22's Yea Right..I let them 22's go...I do miss them and hope to buy some more in the near future.
 
None of my 10/22's are bedded sir. I just bought some good stocks. I prefer the Tony Mele stocks over my Revolution thumbhole stocks. But the Revolution stocks work very well. Here is my Zombie green Mele stock.20160901_131837.jpg
 
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But my red Tony Mele gun is a great shooter. I have a tuner on the Kidd barrel. Talk about tough challenge go try 2 back to back 5 shot groups at 100yds and shoot these 1" stickers and hit each on both groups of 5 shot so in other words 10 out of 10 times at 100yds.20160920_025135.jpg
 
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Joseph:
I bet you didn't know you could learn so much about a variety of rimfire issues did you?
The Marlin Micro-Groove barrels do pretty well for the usual rimfire distances. Unless your's has sustained damage it should last many more tens of thousands of rounds of use.
That said, I've personally tried the "silk purse from a sow's ear" approach and also buying $1600+ rimfire sporters, primarily for silhouette.
I can say with all confidence that there is no single best solution, only what's best for you.
Good luck.
 
I have a couple of 10/22s that have fired 1.0" groups at 200. My original 10/22 would do 1/2" groups at 50 all day long with about anything you fed it and true 1/2" at 100 with the right ammo....went to he!! in the handbasket past 100....My favorite is an early 10/22 with 24" PacNor fluted bull barrel, extended stock, and excellent trigger job. I have killed squirrels and rock chucks past 200 several times with it.

You just need to buy what you want, and glean the most out of it. The options are endless.

Steve :)


:rolleyes: Well, I re-read what I wrote. What I read now is not what I was thinking as I was typing, and what a typical reader would visualize reading this is a helluva lot better than I did. Over egg-saturated? Yeah. (Eating crow.) My one 10/22 would do half inch groups at 50 yards. (I have a couple of TC Contenders that will do that also.) That is double what others have posted and what a good shooter could do today. Yes, I have shot 1/2" groups at 100 with that lucky carton of ammo when I was doing a lot of shooting, but since I have not been shooting them in a long while, and not even consistently, since I have been into big pistols....I likely could not shoot like that today, not even with same brand of ammo. I don't shoot near enough .22LR now to even consider trying the "3 of 4 groups under an inch at 100 yards on the same target". One of four? Maybe?

So, my 10/22s and my Ruger Charger do shoot well...but not like AppleCreek. What I did once upon a time does not equate to what I could do today. I apologize for the exaggeration and/or stretching of the proverbial "fish tale". Can't type any more, I got a mouth full of black feathers.

Steve o_O
 
That was a refreshing read - good man Steve.

My beef is that, with just so many wild accuracy claims made on the internet it starts to become the accepted standard - I've been shooting more than 50 years, over that time accuracy from good centrefire rifles has improved a lot. 20-30 years ago a centrefire rifle that would hold 1 moa consistently was something to talk about, now it's fairly run of the mill.

During the same period, I don't think .22lr accuracy has improved at all. The NSRA (UK)prone 50 and 100 yard rifle targets are the same size now as they were back in the 1960's when I was regularly shooting them. If 100/100 came up too often they would be reducing the size of the targets.

The problem, of course, is that with a centrefire you can tune the load to suit the rifle, with the rimfire, you are usually stuck with one of the half a dozen types that are locally available.
Even when you have found the perfect .22 round for your particular rifle there's no saying that the next batch of the same stuff will perform as well.

If you are into serious match shooting you can take you rifle to Eley/Lapua and have it tested with many different batches of ammunition to see which performs best.
One batch of Eley Tenex is not necessarily the same as the next - how disappointing is that.
As far as I can see, for a cartridge that would be recognised by Abraham Lincoln, the only innovation the R&D departments has come up with is to clip 1/16 inch off the tip of their best match rounds.

Some of those groups posted by AppleCreek are exceptional, the disappointment is that if you shoot a series of groups, there's always the odd ones that stray outside the group for no apparent reason, even with good quality ammunition. I've tried sorting by weight, rim thickness, runout etc. but they still show up more often that I would like.
 
That was a refreshing read - good man Steve.

My beef is that, with just so many wild accuracy claims made on the internet it starts to become the accepted standard - I've been shooting more than 50 years, over that time accuracy from good centrefire rifles has improved a lot. 20-30 years ago a centrefire rifle that would hold 1 moa consistently was something to talk about, now it's fairly run of the mill.

During the same period, I don't think .22lr accuracy has improved at all. The NSRA (UK)prone 50 and 100 yard rifle targets are the same size now as they were back in the 1960's when I was regularly shooting them. If 100/100 came up too often they would be reducing the size of the targets.

The problem, of course, is that with a centrefire you can tune the load to suit the rifle, with the rimfire, you are usually stuck with one of the half a dozen types that are locally available.
Even when you have found the perfect .22 round for your particular rifle there's no saying that the next batch of the same stuff will perform as well.

If you are into serious match shooting you can take you rifle to Eley/Lapua and have it tested with many different batches of ammunition to see which performs best.
One batch of Eley Tenex is not necessarily the same as the next - how disappointing is that.
As far as I can see, for a cartridge that would be recognised by Abraham Lincoln, the only innovation the R&D departments has come up with is to clip 1/16 inch off the tip of their best match rounds.

Some of those groups posted by AppleCreek are exceptional, the disappointment is that if you shoot a series of groups, there's always the odd ones that stray outside the group for no apparent reason, even with good quality ammunition. I've tried sorting by weight, rim thickness, runout etc. but they still show up more often that I would like.



You would do well to do some homework, virtually nothing you've stated is accurate.
.22 accuracy has increased substantially in recent years, there is zero debate on this.
Barrels have improved exponentially.
Ammunition is the same. Hint.....nobody professes to be consistant between what you refer to as " batches", it's not neccessarily supposed to be......that's why there's lot numbers. Within lots it is amazingly accurate and consistant.
If you think clipping the tip is the only development, you have a lot to learn.
I might suggest looking up the well documented articles on ELEY current methodology, and rarely is there the " odd one".
It's easy.....buy better ammo and shoot it in better guns.
Lastly, not to belabor the point.....your buddy can publish all the images, signed, noted, and measured.....unfortunately none of them.....zero.....are close, usually add about 50%, still has'nt quite figured out that two holes side by side or seperated by paper, cannot, by defination represent a group less than a single bullet hole. I mean Jeeez, how long can you go without learning how to measure a group?
 
You would do well to do some homework, virtually nothing you've stated is accurate.
.22 accuracy has increased substantially in recent years, there is zero debate on this.
Barrels have improved exponentially.
Ammunition is the same. Hint.....nobody professes to be consistant between what you refer to as " batches", it's not neccessarily supposed to be......that's why there's lot numbers. Within lots it is amazingly accurate and consistant.
If you think clipping the tip is the only development, you have a lot to learn.
I might suggest looking up the well documented articles on ELEY current methodology, and rarely is there the " odd one".
It's easy.....buy better ammo and shoot it in better guns.
Lastly, not to belabor the point.....your buddy can publish all the images, signed, noted, and measured.....unfortunately none of them.....zero.....are close, usually add about 50%, still has'nt quite figured out that two holes side by side or seperated by paper, cannot, by defination represent a group less than a single bullet hole. I mean Jeeez, how long can you go without learning how to measure a group?

Sheez Tim - What's rattled your cage? You're not one of the guys who's been twiddling their thumbs in R&D for the last 30 years in a rimfire factory are you?

Going back over a hundred years to 1909 the BSA No. 12 Martini actioned target rifle was expected to keep 9 out 10 shots within an inch at 100 yards. HERE

The Martini International Mk 3 from the 1960's was expected to keep all shots within .75 at 100 yards. HERE

A consensus of opinion seems to indicate that the very best rimfire ammunition ever produced was in the 1990's from the fabled Eley No 5 machine.

Sure, .22 accuracy has improved, but not by much over the last 50 years and very little has been due to more accurate ammunition, of course, we're talking about good quality match ammunition here.

Top quality match barrels better? Yes, probably a little and more consistent quality, but I think most of the improvements have come from a better understanding of barrel harmonics and the use of various types of tuners/dampers etc.

Could you please just explain where you think my group measurements are incorrect.
 
All this talk about accurate 10-22s and Joe Chacon isn't even mentioned. You all need to check out what he is doing and what he's doing it with. Try benchrest central.
 
Sheez Tim - What's rattled your cage? You're not one of the guys who's been twiddling their thumbs in R&D for the last 30 years in a rimfire factory are you?

Going back over a hundred years to 1909 the BSA No. 12 Martini actioned target rifle was expected to keep 9 out 10 shots within an inch at 100 yards. HERE

The Martini International Mk 3 from the 1960's was expected to keep all shots within .75 at 100 yards. HERE

A consensus of opinion seems to indicate that the very best rimfire ammunition ever produced was in the 1990's from the fabled Eley No 5 machine.

Sure, .22 accuracy has improved, but not by much over the last 50 years and very little has been due to more accurate ammunition, of course, we're talking about good quality match ammunition here.

Top quality match barrels better? Yes, probably a little and more consistent quality, but I think most of the improvements have come from a better understanding of barrel harmonics and the use of various types of tuners/dampers etc.

Could you please just explain where you think my group measurements are incorrect.


OK we' ll do this nice and polite....you see if you agree.
Now without getting into al kinds of self important bragadosio, I live in the benchrest world...rimfire and centerfire, know many of the best smiths and own/owned /shoot/ comp guns from most everybody. All smiths, build better guns today. All componants are better than even 5-10 years ago, better actions, better triggers, better stocks, better, far more consistant barrels, and damn good ammo.
Don't believe me look at any big time rimefire BR sanctioning body, records are dropping like flies.
One of the guys I shoot with, In ,IR50 sporter, the 7 1/2 lb class with 6X scope shot 8 250's in a row this year.....8. A few years back you never heard of 250's with the sporter.
As I said before, go read the ELEY production articles....they're on line, they go into stuff like the fact that for TENNEX every single slug that is used....every one, is computer scanned before it's seated in the case that is scanned to insure the powder charge is exact.
That said, on to groups.
First off, you do not measure the hole, you measure the dark radius outside it where the slug actually cuts, and folds the paper.....how do you think that dark radius got there?
Next, your sub caliber groups CANNOT, by defination, be those measurements.
A .22 hole, call it .200" means for a group to be inside that the subsequent shots must cut inside that hole, they cannot be adjacent to it let alone paper between holes. This is pretty easy stuff. This is one of the reasons calibers have limited accuracy and if you have ever sen real sanctioned BR measurement calipers are used with an attached etched reticle.
So in the end.... Nothing really rattled my cage but if you go to all this trouple to note, record, post all these groups, shouldn't, maybe, they be accurate.
Lastly, I directed a few seasoned BR competitors from BRC to come take a look and I got a universal, WTF, response.
Number one factoid given.....group cannot be sub caliber unless all followup holes cut well inside the first.......basic physics my friend....take it or leave it as you see fit.
 
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I really think you have your wires crossed Tim - I haven't posted any groups, simply re-posted the group shot by Geno with the measurements you rightly queried.

I just ran the photo through "On Target" to give Geno a rough idea of what the group size would be as we would normally measure.

The two centre groups (post 26), measured by Geno as .197 and .267 I measured as .273 and .338 - Although not as accurate as an optical gage, I've found "On Target" to be fairly accurate, quick and easy. Of course, there may be issues with taking measurement via a copied photo, but if, as I guess, the grids are 1" then they won't be far out.

A simple apology will suffice Tim.
 

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