Accuracy of the 45 acp

[Link]

I thought I would just buy this Ruger Sr1911 reload and shoot. However I am getting vertical with factory and reloads. I have reloaded 4.0 4.5 and 5.2 of BE under 200gr lead and 200gr JHP.
Now I read crimp, no crimp. Change springs and someone said I have limp wrists. MMMmmm not me lol. I do shoot 5 other handguns from 22 to a 44 mag with no vertical. I guess I will load some 200s over 4.2 BE and try again. Any Ideas? I did a search on 1911.com and didn't find what I'm looking for, however I'm not a member there.

thanks Link

Maybe it's me ?

 

[deadwooddick]

Take yourself out of the equation… w/ a Ransom Rest.

 

[dickn52]

The limp wrist shows up in fail to feed or stove piping. Vertical where I worked came from hand not into the backstrap or up tight on the beavertail for 1911's. Get one of those hand trainers and squeeze the snot out of it whenever you ain't doing something. Build the hand muscles. (Yeah I know, but they are weak in everyone).

 

[CJ6]

Hows the fit on the bushing?

 

[stork]

Link,
Full disclosure, I'm a very serious Bullseye shooter with a slight long range Prairie dog obsession. I've ransom'd hundreds of various 45 loads out of 3 custom Bullseye 1911's. So I have a bit of experience with the 1911. A Ransom Rest will NOT outshoot a good handheld group, however it will be far more consistent over the course of testing multiple groups. It never gets tired.

1:
What bullet are you using, exactly?
2:
What accuracy are you getting for a 10 shot group?
Third:
What distance are you testing?
4:
What amount of crimp are you using? Exact measurement to .001 please.
5:
Over all length.
6:
What brand of brass are you using, or is it a mixture?
7:
What is the bullet diameter of your lead bullets, again to the .001?

A very well made 1911 can shoot well under 2" @ 50 yards with the right loads. Every one of my BE pistols will group well under that.
Al

Forgot to ask, what type of accuracy are you expecting?

 

[gotcha]

Hows the fit on the bushing?

+1 Friend just bought an SR............... same problem. I gave him on of my match bushings and groups tightened immediately. ............ Also look for excess play in barrel link. looseness there can cause action to go into battery in random positions which can also effect vertical. FWIW.

 

[Lapua40X]

My handgun experience only goes back to 1958. But I've learned a lot in that short time.
I agree with most of the comments made here, but there is at least one thing that is not your problem.

It is not your bullets and I doubt it is even remotely related to your load. If it's anything mechanical I'd vote for the barrel bushing.

"Maybe it's me ?" ... The 5 other handguns you have experience with may or may not compare to the 1911 or its clones. Take a look at the "hog leg", the typical S&W K Model, the Colt Police, and other handguns of similar profile. None have a grip that even resembles the 1911 and none of them balance the same way.
The 1911 is best gripped by placing it in the web of the hand (roll your hand upward into the grip safety) and let the rest of your hand move naturally to contact the backstrap with the backstrap running straight down the palm of your hand (there's a natural depression in the palm that will align with the backstrap and grip safety). Gently wrap your fingers around the grip, trigger finger lying next to the trigger guard. You can leave the thumb pointing up and away from the frame (my preferred grip) of place in gently against the frame but don't apply pressure with the thumb.
Use the three fingers on the grip to gently pull the 1911 straight back into the hand.
Extend your forearm and rotate the 1911 counter clockwise about 120 degrees. Hold the elbow of your gun hand in its rotated postion with the other hand and, with only wrist movement, rotate the 1911 back to its upright aiming position.
Touch the trigger with the end of the finger, midway between the first joint and the tip.
Align the sights and fire the shot.

In my experience, most vertical stringing is the product of "heeling"; where the lower part of the gun hand pushes forward on the bottom of the grip or the upper portion of the gun hand pulls back on the upper portion of the grip as the shot is fired. In some circles it's referred to as "pushing" the shot.

When you've fire a round, don't chase the last shot on target and don't fight the horizontal drift in the sights. Focus on that front sight and its alignment, using the X as the only aiming point.

 

[TAJ45]

Stork, Gotcha and Lapua 40x are spot on.
A Ransom Rest aligns the frame not the sights. Giles's accuracy load was around 4.4-5 of BE for sure, under a 200 H&G SWC iirc. That is on the warm side for many BEshooters.

I had forgotten about the wrist rotation, thanks L40X.

As far as using three fingers, I consider the pinky as baggage, one more unruly teenager. I use the two middle fingers only, for a more consistent straight back pull/grip.
However, for an unaccurized 1911, you really can't expect "BR" group quality any more than you could from a stock Ruger 10-22. Like any mfrd gun, every once in a while one happens to be exceptional. You most usually get what you pay for and usually it takes a grand to start toward a 50 yd X ring capable 1911.

 

[Jeff A]

Maybe there is something to this "Les Baer" thing. It would be great if all 1911's shot like a Baer.

 

[joshb]

I'm reading this thread and I'm starting to feel my age. When I shoot pistol these days, I'm very content when I can put'em in a 4" circle at 15 yds.

 

[dickn52]

I'm reading this thread and I'm starting to feel my age. When I shoot pistol these days, I'm very content when I can put'em in a 4" circle at 15 yds.

From a tactical standpoint, that is excellent. I was at the local range shooting doubles when a guy walked up and said you need to tighten up your groups. They were at 2-4 inches at 15 yards. I told him "that at 2 AM, standing in my bedroom doorway, they would be just fine." I wasn't shooting PPC stuff, I was double tapping bad boys.

 

[USMCDOC]

Would be good if Joe Chambers were to chime in here!

 

[stork]

Until we have a bit more info, it's going to be very difficult to suggest a solution.
What groups are presently being shot, at what distance?
What size groups are your goal? At this point we don't know if you're trying to get 1" groups at 10 feet or 50 yards.
Are all the groups the same shape?
What size are the groups?
Are you testing jacketed or plated HP's? Plated are fine for 25 yards & under for plinking accuracy, but they don't work for the best 50 yard accuracy loads. Accuracy testing has proven a good cast or swaged bullet to be more accurate at 50.

If your present loads are cycling the pistol, you don't need to change your recoil spring. That will come up when you want to tweek a proven load and fine tune it by going up or down with your spring. My best lead load is a Zero 200 gr swaged SWC with 4.0 gr Clays in Remington brass crimped to .470. My best cast load is 4.2 Clays or WST with the same brass but crimped to .468.

Link, have you had another shooter test the same loads. Preferably a Bullseye shooter that is shooting at least a high Expert score. While my experimentation has been with the Nostler and Zero 185 JHP's, they like to go fast for best accuracy. 4.5-4.7 of BE have given multiple groups out of the Ransom around an inch at 50 yards. I can't offer a load suggestion for 200 JHP's. Until there's more info, can't recommend a solution when we don't have enough data on the problem.

Al

 

[nmkid]

I'll take my Kimber any day.

 

[Lapua40X]

.,..
As far as using three fingers, I consider the pinky as baggage, one more unruly teenager. I use the two middle fingers only, for a more consistent straight back pull/grip.
... .

Thanks TA... I had forgotten that "pinky" point. I agree whole heartedly. Besides, too much pressure on the pinky will pull a shot low right.

 

[TAJ45]

As far as: If it cycles your reload, don't change it - my suggestion is once your load is found drop spring wgt until it won't cycle reliably then go back up........HOWEVER, make sure there is enough spring to put it back into lockup, consistently. I chased that rabbit for a while........once.

 

[dickn52]

The most accurate out of the box .45 I ever owned was a Para LDA from Canada at the time.

 

[gotcha]

The most accurate out of the box .45 I ever owned was a Para LDA from Canada at the time.

Nostalgia time ! My favorite is Randall Curtis Lemay model with factory match trigger, extended grip safety and bobbed hammer. ............ The 1st all stainless 1911 A1 ......... shoots & feeds like a dream.

 

[Shaggy357]

The first day I shot my Ruger P345 it took me 8 shots and about 5 seconds to knock over 5 IHMSA steel chickens at 50 yards. After my buddies each took a turn shooting, it was unanimous decision that the majority of the misses were due to us not being used to the 39.6lb trigger pull...well, not really, but it sure felt like it was that much. My buddies and I agreed it was plenty accurate to keep locked in the night table. A little work smoothing parts and adjusting springs will do wonders.

Steve

 

[stork]

Steve,
A little TLC with a 6" bench grinder (with a course wheel of course) just might smooth that P345 a bit.

I can't recall a single Ruger I've had over the last 40+ years that didn't need the same. Some not near as much as others.
Al