Accuracy Issues with 17 Remington

[toasty]

I have a 17 rem barrel from Shaw with about 150 rounds through it that I am really struggling with and want to get your opinions. The barrel shows some promise when developing loads and I can shoot groups in the .3 -.4 range on a clean barrel. However, after cleaning, as soon as I get to the 15-20 rounds count, it opens up to about .7" at 100 yards with the same loads and does not change with bullet seating or powder charge. There is always copper when I clean it, but it is not too bad, I have seen worse copper fouling barrels. This is a 12 twist and will not shoot 25gr vmax, the bullet tumbles. I am shooting 20gr Nosler BT with IMR 4064, but have tried 4320 and 4198 with the same results. Is this just what happens with a17 remington? Should I keep trying powders, different bullet, or is there something else to try? I do have HBN to coat the bullets that has helped with other fouling barrels. Do I just have a barrel that is only accurate to .7"?

 

[Prose]

It's not impossible that your barrel fouls out after 20 rounds.

If you aren't getting it fully clean, it may be fouling out faster than it otherwise would, especially due to carbon in the throat/carbon ring. Consider an abrasive bore cleaner for deep cleans. Also, you can maintain accuracy with a quick field cleaning. When shooting high volume prairie dogs I field clean my barrel 4 or 5 times a day or about every 50 shots, then an overnight soak and deep clean in the morning.

 

[Hotshot]

12twist? One of the failings of the Remington factory barrels was a 1 in 10 twist.
17Fireball went to 1 in 9 to successfully stabilize 25 grain and heavier bullets.
A few more rounds might smooth out your barrel a little and less fouling. That might be all the better that barrel can do. Have you tried any other 20 grain bullets? I have a 17 Fireball that loves 25 vmax and another that hates those but loves Bergers. Anything 17 caliber seems to be picky to load for, but well worth it when you get the right.

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

The bore is smaller hence a copper buildup will be a greater percentage than a larger caliber. Shooting coated bullets may help. Not my first choice of barrels. With the component shortages, it not a good time to be told to try different bullets, primers and powders. Maybe a few more rounds will smooth out the barrel. I would be about ready to JB it if it was mine. Good luck and keep us posted how it goes.

Frank

 

[JSH]

Wipe Out and let it soak. Don’t be in a hurry.
Ya get what ya pay for. I have a couple of Shaw barrels but not in anything under 30 caliber. They are fine for what I do with them.

I won’t go into who is best. I paid a small premium for my 17 Remington barrel and am very well pleased with it and money well spent.
I suspect a less than nice smooth bore. As mentioned maybe a shot or two of a reduced load may smooth it up with some fire lapping. Be aware that it may well solve the copper fouling, but could open your groups as well.

If it were mine, I would contact Shaw. If that gleens no satisfaction then maybe some polishing with a jag and some compound. Fire lapping as a last resort in my book.

I refuse to use anything it Wipe Out in my 17’s and 20’s. It has served me well for over 20 years.

 

[toasty]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I do have 20gr vmax which I use for a 1:9 17 hornet that shoots better than this. I may take a few of those to try out and see if it is bullet related. I bought this barrel used from another forum member a couple years ago and did not pay much for it. When buying used, I am always prepared for the barrel to be hit or miss and will just put another barrel on if this one doesn't work out. I am going to JB bore paste it as that does help occasionally on some barrels. What powder are you guys using for your 20gr bullets in the 17 remington?

 

[L1986]

Not saying it’s definitely twist related but you may try a non plastic tip bullet…I’ve got a fireball with an 11twist and it won’t shoot anything but the Berger 20s…tried everything to get the noslers and hornadys to shoot and about gave up on it until I tried the bergers…problem solved right away. granted you are pushing them faster then fireball speeds…any signs of instability on target?

 

[JSH]

I don’t shoot the 20’s in my 17 Remington any longer, 25’s and 30’s.
However I did load some for a CZ 17 Remington when I first started playing with these.
CFE223 gave me speed and accuracy.

Have you looked at the crown really close? A small burr can cause a huge amount of grief.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

My M700 17 rem was recalled for rebarreling(if I remember correctly the recall notice claimed it was part of a run that wasn't hardened properly). I could get 15-16 shots before noticeable group opening. After Rem replaced the barrel I often shot 40-50 shots of same bullet/powder combo before cleaning, and the cleaning wasn't because accuracy problems just maintenance. The second barrel lasted about 1500 rds, before accuracy fell off, it never shot the 30 gr bullets or the 25 gr vmax very well. I had a Lilja 1/9 put on, it is dead nuts accurate. I mostly shoot 29 gr WCD bullets for coyote out of it.

 

[SSL]

I have a 17 rem barrel from Shaw with about 150 rounds through it that I am really struggling with and want to get your opinions. The barrel shows some promise when developing loads and I can shoot groups in the .3 -.4 range on a clean barrel. However, after cleaning, as soon as I get to the 15-20 rounds count, it opens up to about .7" at 100 yards with the same loads and does not change with bullet seating or powder charge. There is always copper when I clean it, but it is not too bad, I have seen worse copper fouling barrels. This is a 12 twist and will not shoot 25gr vmax, the bullet tumbles. I am shooting 20gr Nosler BT with IMR 4064, but have tried 4320 and 4198 with the same results. Is this just what happens with a17 remington? Should I keep trying powders, different bullet, or is there something else to try? I do have HBN to coat the bullets that has helped with other fouling barrels. Do I just have a barrel that is only accurate to .7"?

Your 1-12" is likely too slow for bullets over 20-grains. Perhaps more velocity would help the 25s, but stability would probably be borderline at best. My .17 Remingtons both have 1-9" twist and handle 25-grain VMax and Hornady 25-grain HP (no longer made it seems) as well as 20-grain VMax into very pleasing groups. I usually get from 40 to 50 rounds before accuracy begins to suffer, and even then not enough to miss a groundhog at usable ranges (300 yards max. Usually 200-250). The two best powders for my rifles are AA2700 and CFE223. I lean more towards the CFE for a little more safe velocity, slightly better accuracy and longer between cleaning cycles. But that's just in my rifles...your mileage may vary.

 

[Ray123]

12twist? One of the failings of the Remington factory barrels was a 1 in 10 twist.
17Fireball went to 1 in 9 to successfully stabilize 25 grain and heavier bullets.
A few more rounds might smooth out your barrel a little and less fouling. That might be all the better that barrel can do. Have you tried any other 20 grain bullets? I have a 17 Fireball that loves 25 vmax and another that hates those but loves Bergers. Anything 17 caliber seems to be picky to load for, but well worth it when you get the right.

His is a shaw barrel...I've had two "factory" 17 Remingtons both are 9 twist and will handle 30 gr bullets.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Remington had some 1/10 twist barrels for a couple years. 1/10 was common with barrel manufacturers(Shilen). I have a Shilen 1/10, 25 vmax marginal, 30 gr hp bullets no good.

 

[Ray123]

I have a 17 rem barrel from Shaw with about 150 rounds through it that I am really struggling with and want to get your opinions. The barrel shows some promise when developing loads and I can shoot groups in the .3 -.4 range on a clean barrel. However, after cleaning, as soon as I get to the 15-20 rounds count, it opens up to about .7" at 100 yards with the same loads and does not change with bullet seating or powder charge. There is always copper when I clean it, but it is not too bad, I have seen worse copper fouling barrels. This is a 12 twist and will not shoot 25gr vmax, the bullet tumbles. I am shooting 20gr Nosler BT with IMR 4064, but have tried 4320 and 4198 with the same results. Is this just what happens with a17 remington? Should I keep trying powders, different bullet, or is there something else to try? I do have HBN to coat the bullets that has helped with other fouling barrels. Do I just have a barrel that is only accurate to .7"?

I have had 2 17 Remington factory rifles, still have one. You need a 9 twist barrel like the factory Remingtons have...and it will handle up 30 gr bullets. I used imr 4320 and coated bullets really helped keep accuracy, in my rifles, with the 25 gr Hornaday HP. The 30 gr Bergers blew up around 80 yards, rips apart and messy on short Range squirrels...so I wouldn't recommend them, but others use them ...Used W 760 with those.

 

[toasty]

I went back to my notes and pulled the rifle out and just confirmed the gun is a 1:10 twist. I was mixed up with a new 222 barrel I have in 1:12. The stability calculators say I am good (not great) on the both the 20gr tipped and a 20gr hp with the hp being a little better. I think I will try to find a 20gr hp to try in the gun and try that with CFE223. I think I will also try a HBN coated to see if I can extend the accuracy. Thanks for all the information. It gives me hope to spend a little more time and money to try to get this barrel to shoot.

 

[jackson1]

Count me as a 17 Remington fan. Just re-barreled my rifle with a new Douglas 1 in 9 twist barrel. The old barrel was the most accurate barrel in ever owned, bar none. Loved 30 grain flat based Kinder's, second choice would be 30 grain Bergers. Both bullets loved IMR 4320. Sadly both the Kinder's and Bergers are no longer made. I limit my shooting to 15 shots before cleaning. It works for me. Just started load testing and went under 0.20". Good luck.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Just find some Hornady 25 gr hp bullets or Berger 25 mef, 1/10 is fine for them. Nosler has a 20 gr fbhp that shoots very well. BLC2,W760 work well also and you can find them. For hunting raccoon and larger the Hornady is a better bullet. The Berger 25 MEF will be easy to load develop with but not a good coyote bullet. The Hornady penetration is better.

 

[Ray123]

Has anyone used the Hornady 15.5 gr copper bullet on any live varmints? I ran them over 4800 fps and there is a powder to get them to 4900. But never used them in the field on varmints...

 

[hogpatrol]

My .02 cents, call it quits and put another barrel, the correct twist for .17s, a 1-9. IMHO, trying to get a 12 twist .17 barrel to shoot anything is an exercise in wasted time, money and components.

 

[RegionRat]

My .02 cents, call it quits and put another barrel, the correct twist for .17s, a 1-9. IMHO, trying to get a 12 twist .17 barrel to shoot anything is an exercise in wasted time, money and components.

See post #14, his bbl is 1:10

 

[hogpatrol]

See post #14, his bbl is 1:10

I missed his post on the corrected twist. I stand by my advice. Dump the 1-10 and start over with a 1-9.