Acceptable run-out on .308

[Campbell]

Hi, all of you reloading Gurus

What do you consider to be an acceptable amount of run-out on a .308 loaded cartridge? I am measuring from base to approx. the mid point of the ogive and bullet tip.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Joe R]

Hi, all of you reloading Gurus

What do you consider to be an acceptable amount of run-out on a .308 loaded cartridge? I am measuring from base to approx. the mid point of the ogive and bullet tip.

Thanks in advance.

I have another name for bullet runout: Fool's errand.

30K runout is not a big deal. Here my posting that will explain it all http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/my-new-260-ai-build.3909184/

I used to drive myself nuts with bullet runout I even bought one of the CTK/Accuracy One ($400) runout gage. Now the only time I use it is when I first setup a die.

Don't waste your time thinking about bullet runout focus on things that really make a difference in your handloads.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Erik Cortina]

If your dies are good, you should be getting .003" or under.
I don't ever check mine, but when I used to they were around .001 - .002

 

[Erik Cortina]

Use your runout tool to diagnose where runout is coming from.

Measure a piece of fired brass, they should measure .000", if they don't, your chamber is the issue.
If they measure .000" but runout increases after sizing, your sizing die is the issue.
If they are .000" after sizing but not after seating bullet, then your bullet seater is the issue.

Once you find source of runout and correct it, you won't have run out issues again. You can now put run out tool away until you set up dies for another rifle.

 

[Joe R]

If your dies are good, you should be getting .003" or under.
I don't ever check mine, but when I used to they were around .001 - .002

Campbell,
Erik is the main MAN. Sit on his knee and learn all that you can. Get him to explain to you what the Holy Trinity of precision reloading is. That alone will save you a year and hundreds of dollars. It did to me. Every time I visit with Erik I learn something else I'm doing wrong and that I need to change.

Joe

 

[Erik Cortina]

Campbell,
Erik is the main MAN. Sit on his knee and learn all that you can. Get him to explain to you what the Holy Trinity of precision reloading is. That alone will save you a year and hundreds of dollars. It did to me. Every time I visit with Erik I learn something else I'm doing wrong and that I need to change.

Joe

Thanks Joe.

Go clean your barrel now!

 

[Campbell]

Many sincere thanks for all of your replies.

My run-out is typically .0035 on reloaded rounds.

@ eric:

I will follow your guidance, many thanks.

I am using Redding dies. Supposing that either the bushing or seating die is the cause of my run-out, what/how do I correct the issue?

Many thanks again.

Campbell (Cam)

 

[Joe R]

Many sincere thanks for all of your replies.

Supposing that either the bushing or seating die is the cause of my run-out, what/how do I correct the issue?

Many thanks again.

Campbell (Cam)

If the runout is being caused by your seating die, its probably because of installation issue.

1. Make sure the bushing has a "little" play. Just enough to hear it rattle when shaken.
2. Loosen up your lock rings.
3. Size a case.
4. Measure the head space to make sure it is within desired range.
5. If it is within desired range:
   1. Place another piece pf brass in the shell holder and raise the ram until the brass lightly contacts the die. That effectively takes any play/slop out of the threads. The light upward pressure from the ram/brass should keep the die co-axially straight.
   2. Lightly tighten the lock ring against the press.
   3. Tighten the lock ring around the die
6. If it is not within desired range, try again until you get it right.
7. When you have everything buttoned down
   1. Size a piece of brass
   2. Measure runout of the brass
8. If within desired range, you're done. If not try again.

If seating die is causing runout do the same as above.


Joe

 

[Erik Cortina]

Many times the locking rings are the issue. If you are getting runout, replace locking ring and see if things improve.

 

[Campbell]

I have another name for bullet runout: Fool's errand.

30K runout is not a big deal. Here my posting that will explain it all http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/my-new-260-ai-build.3909184/

I used to drive myself nuts with bullet runout I even bought one of the CTK/Accuracy One ($400) runout gage. Now the only time I use it is when I first setup a die.

Don't waste your time thinking about bullet runout focus on things that really make a difference in your handloads.

Regards,

Joe

Hi Joe

I reload with the mind-set of OCD!

If the runout is being caused by your seating die, its probably because of installation issue.

1. Make sure the bushing has a "little" play. Just enough to hear it rattle when shaken.
2. Loosen up your lock rings.
3. Size a case.
4. Measure the head space to make sure it is within desired range.
5. If it is within desired range:
   1. Place another piece pf brass in the shell holder and raise the ram until the brass lightly contacts the die. That effectively takes any play/slop out of the threads. The light upward pressure from the ram/brass should keep the die co-axially straight.
   2. Lightly tighten the lock ring against the press.
      
      
   3. Tighten the lock ring around the die
6. If it is not within desired range, try again until you get it right.
7. When you have everything buttoned down
   1. Size a piece of brass
   2. Measure runout of the brass
8. If within desired range, you're done. If not try again.

If seating die is causing runout do the same as above.


Joe

HI Joe

Many thanks

 

[Campbell]

Many times the locking rings are the issue. If you are getting runout, replace locking ring and see if things improve.

Many thanks

Do you have any recommendation re choice of locking rings?

At present I am using the original Redding locking rings, but I am drawn towards the Hornady types.

Cam

 

[Erik Cortina]

I make my own but the Forster locking rings are good.

 

[dcali]

Without doing anything special other than turning necks, I almost always wind up with about 0.0015" at the neck. As for acceptable, I have no idea. Never tested it.

I'm a fan of the Sinclair lock rings. Very easy to adjust and never had any alignment issues with them.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Use your runout tool to diagnose where runout is coming from.

Measure a piece of fired brass, they should measure .000", if they don't, your chamber is the issue.
If they measure .000" but runout increases after sizing, your sizing die is the issue.
If they are .000" after sizing but not after seating bullet, then your bullet seater is the issue.

Once you find source of runout and correct it, you won't have run out issues again. You can now put run out tool away until you set up dies for another rifle.

Completely forget about the specific link to "runout" in the answer above. This is exactly how you solve ANY problem. You carry out the approach in a stepwise fashion, measuring carefully after each individual step. This allows you to identify the exact step in which the problem occurs, as well as the magnitude of the problem.

 

[Campbell]

Many thanks to all of you.

I also want to learn how to neck turn consistently.

Please see my new thread.

 

[T-shooter]

Use your runout tool to diagnose where runout is coming from.

Measure a piece of fired brass, they should measure .000", if they don't, your chamber is the issue.
If they measure .000" but runout increases after sizing, your sizing die is the issue.
If they are .000" after sizing but not after seating bullet, then your bullet seater is the issue.

Once you find source of runout and correct it, you won't have run out issues again. You can now put run out tool away until you set up dies for another rifle.

Unless you have bad brass. I recently purchased 50 Hornady Match .308 cases. I've used them before wityh good luck. These even after running through the resizing die and neck turning were .004" -.007" on the necks. I had to anneal them and got about 2/3's at or under .001". After running the K&M neck tool again, it never touched until about .100 from the shoulder, then took a little cut off one side only. I know firing will help straighten them out too. The few I fired before annealing showed a light soot ring on one side of the necks and the other side was spotless. They usually look about the same all way around.

 

[T-shooter]

Hi, all of you reloading Gurus

What do you consider to be an acceptable amount of run-out on a .308 loaded cartridge? I am measuring from base to approx. the mid point of the ogive and bullet tip.

Thanks in advance.

It seems like everyone has a different opinion of how to measure runout. I do it like you said here. Half way out to the tip. If the bullet is seated a little off, it will show here. I like to see no more than .001" total runout, .0005" per side. I keep anything up to .002" and the rest are used for fouling shots or pulled apart and redone. This is a 208 grain A-Max in Lapua brass showing where I measure. I use a modified Forster Benchrest full length die (with a floating expander ball) and usually have .002" interference fit in the necks. The ball does not pull the necks out of alignment. I use a Redding Competition seating die. On these 208 grain rounds, I load them hot and reduce the neck tension to about .001" with a K&M expander for neck turning. This tool never seems to hurt the runout.

 

[Grimstod]

0.004 for hunting. 0.001 or less for competing. Make sure you are indicating on that part that is supported in the chamber. I know there are a few gauges out there that do not.

 

[dcali]

What we're really after requires measuring it in two places. You want to know if the bullet is tipped more than if it's just not concentric. Not that I actually do that. Once the dies are confirmed to be working there is really no need.

 

[T-shooter]

0.004 for hunting. 0.001 or less for competing. Make sure you are indicating on that part that is supported in the chamber. I know there are a few gauges out there that do not.

Have you ever tried supporting the front of the case from the middle of the shoulder?