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absolutely pointless accuracy project

This is, as the title says, a completely pointless project.

Would like to pick an older carteridge, 30-30, 32 rem, 300 savage, even a .357 or .44 mag rifle etc.

Looking for something with a little history, borderline esoteric.

Will be re-loading for whichever round is chosen.

What round/rifle combo to see what can be done at 100 yards, 200, maybe even 300?
 
Great reply, an excellent choice.

I would really like to keep this in the parameters of an older .25-35 calibre rifle, something your average joe would have been shooting back in the day.

The .45-70 is timeless, hate to f it up my first shot out of the gates.
 
Why not 30-40 krag or 405 winchester.Or if you like pistol cartridges in rifles ,why not the 38-40,I shot a winny 1892 in that caliber and loved it.You could do a project with the 303 british,it is old too. How about 50/70,I have an experimental rolling block in this caliber,there are only 4 or 5 in private hands and I shoot it with smokeless powder.It is so slow that you can actually see the bullet traveling to the backstop.It hits with authority.
 
Excellent ideas.

jonbearman, what makes you suggest the .303 british over others, the 30-30, the .30-40 krag etc?

ronAKA why the 300 as opposed to others?

thanks, matt.
 
mattri said:
ronAKA why the 300 as opposed to others?

It is rimless, and I like the geometry of the case. It has a relatively small head which minimizes thrust on the bolt. The shoulder angle is steeper than most, while the body is almost straight. It is almost an AI version of the 30BR. A cartridge well ahead of it's time. This assumes you can get quality brass for it, and I have not checked that part.
 
I have a .300 H&H Magnum F-Class rifle built by Norman Clark one of the top UK gunsmiths out of his old parts box with everything except the scope rail and bedding secondhand. At its heart is an old Winchester manufactured P'14 military action.

.300 H&H is an interesting project in itself with very good Winchester brass available, and there is absolutely nothing that .300WSM does that the old H&H can't do just as well - groups, MVs and MV spreads despite all the nasty things you hear about this 'inefficient and obsolete design'. The biggest snag about this and similar old magnums is the length as most factory long actions barely handle this cartridge, and certainly won't if chambered to suit heavy (200gn +) bullets seated well out. The P'14 is the only cheap action around that will handle it and similar numbers.

Now that its barrel is toast, I've had similar thoughts to mattri's wondering what I could rebarrel it to. My initial thinking was to stick to .300 magnums, the Remington SAUM being my first choice. Then I started to wonder about 'obsolete' cartridges.

The three that come to mind are:

.303 British - what the action was originally designed for. You can get Norma brass and there are one or two decent bullets around, primarily the 174gn SMK. For a US project, the obvious equivalent is the near identical .30-40 Krag with the benefits of a .300 cal barrel and lots of good 0.308" bullets. My interest was to see what the old three-oh-three could do in a good quality modern match barrel as opposed to all the clapped out SMLEs, Number 4s and P'14s that we have here. If adopting either .303 or .30-40, a custom reamer with much reduced clearances would be essential. Most British military rifle chambers are slack and I'm sure most .30-40 reamers around in the US will produce chambers with generous clearances - it goes with the rimmed territory!

7.62X54R - like .303 and rimmed, minor changes only to the bolt. A cartridge with a very good match pedigree and surprisingly muscular in a strong action. Lapua brass available. If you went down this route, it would be as the Finnish 7.62X53R version using a .300/,308 barrel and thirty calibre bullets. Again, some care with reamer specs would be needed especially in the neck area.

.30-06 - needs a bolt change in my rifle to the M1917 example. Should be no problem. Strange choice? well, precious few people have built modern high quality .30-06s and the 'received wisdom' remains that it is inferior to the .308W. German Salazar, who contributes some great stuff to this forum as well as producing his Rifleman's Journal Blog

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/

is a great fan of the cartridge and is running a near one-man campaign to get people to adopt it again for match use. In the UK, choosing .30-06 would be regarded as somewhere between mere eccentricity to being truly barking mad! It has a lot going for it apart from its being uncompetitive in longer-range F-Class against modern 6.5s and sevens, and it's being ineligible for F/TR. (German tells me many American clubs accept it as a .308W substitute to persuade people to enter with their factory .30-06s, but nobody would wear that over here.)

Anyway just some thoughts to add to what I hope will be a good collection of suggestions.

Laurie,
York, England
 
Laurie is quite right that I'm fighting a rear-guard action to keep the .30-06 alive in NRA shooting - and I'm having a ball doing it! Last week I finished 6th in our 1000 yard state championship with it, with scores that were competitive with the best of the 6mm and 6.5 mm shooters. One really bad relay (conditions) and another with a poor strategy kept me down to a 973/1000 but that wasn't too far behind the winner as it was not a weekend of easy conditions at all. Right now it's 34 degrees and there's a howling wind blowing; I'm heading to the range in 30 minutes for a 600 yard match with the '06 loaded with Berger 190 VLD's - it should be perfect!

More to the point of this thread, the .30-30 is one that really intrigues me. Michael Turner in New Mexico has built a 100/200 yard Benchrest rifle (he even built the action) using the .30-30 and it shoots very competitive groups. The rimmed case is a big plus for consistent ignition and the case capacity is fine for short to mid-range shooting.

I've been gathering components to build a Ruger No.1 in .30-30 and I'm almost there. I have the base rifle, the barrel, some trigger parts and a Unertl 20X scope for it. It won't be competitive in anything, I'm sure - but it'll be fun!
 
The .300 is a fantastic cartridge and have a 1899 in .300 and love it. He just stated that he wanted something more period. The .303 british is one of the unlucky fall through the cracks type of cartridge.
 
Thanks to all who've posted.

While the .30-06 fits the bill accuracy wise, it's a bit bigger than I would like to go with this particular project.

The .30-30 is getting a lot of positive replies, and I've always liked the round.

If a .30-30 is chosen, which rifle to use? Would love to find an older period gun that is still in good shape. An old breech loader would be perfect.
 
32-40....cast bullet indexed to barrel...loaded into rifling..1:20 alloy.....
Magnum pistol powder...pistol primer
Single case indexed to chamber...
Velocity 1150 to 1300 fps...
1.5 inch groups at 200 yards...See Coors single shot records...Further back Harry Pope...
Fun to shoot...
 
Happy Thanksgiving German,
If your interested in building a 30-30 bench gun, somewhere in the wreckage that I call my re-loading area I have some of Dave Tooley's 30 American cases with small rifle primers.
I was going to turn them into 7-30 Waters to use in my Contender, but just never did get around to it. Besides, although it's very accurate, AND it's made in NH, the contender has a rather springy action and is pretty tough on brass.

IF I can find them, you want 'em????

Craig
 
Last year I tried seeing what was possible with a Yugo SKS, I was using Winchester brass and 123 Amaxes and 150 SSTs that were for the .303 (.311") since the bore on this thing slugged out at .311 or .312, I can't remember. I was loading the .150s out long enough to make contact with the lands and pushing things pretty hard.

I took all the BS off the rifle; bayonet, cleaning rod and then put some Tech sights on the back and filed the front sight post down pretty thin and I was running everything with the gas shut off for single shot. I really never got a chance to try the thing for accuracy this Summer though so I can't really give a real determination as to what it was capable of doing. It's a project I need to resume again soon.

Anyway, it's fun seeing what newer methods and technology can do for an old dog, you should enjoy it no matter what caliber/rifle you end up going with.

Wayne
 
Oh, and about this thread,
Why are projects involving accuracy ever pointless???

Becuase it's not the latest and greatest?

Because your the only guy that has ever bothered to try to get it to shoot good?

I guess all those old guys, Hmmmm, Pope, Ackley, Newton, Carmichel were just Barking Up The Wrong Tree :-)

I like old stuff.

Craig
 
45bpcr,
They weren't old when they were working with them.
German is right, Michael Turner has an incredible BR rifle in 30-30. He has shot several groups in the .100s.
By the way Carmichel is still winning BR matches and shoots a lot.
Butch
 
I love old obscure calibers.
It's funny to read all the posts here about the 6.5X55.
I have more than a few Swedish Mausers. One of them is an FSR rifle with diaopter sights. I should shoot some 200 yd targets with surplus ammo and post the pics here.

Craig
 
Craig, if you can locate that brass, I'm definitely interested - thanks!

We had a long talk about these kinds of projects at lunch after today's match. Mid Tompkins told us he dropped off a Winchester High Wall to get restocked with a very good gunsmith in 1964 when he (Mid) got out of the Air Force. He hasn't gotten it back yet, but since the gunsmith is dead now, he's not expecting it anytime soon! I felt better about my 4 year wait for my BAT after that! :o
 

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