A4350 compared to RL16

[Mark611]

I know this has probably been brought up before? I'm not going to spend my time chasing after H4350, even though I have never used it, I have mainly used RL16 for my 6.5 Creedmoor, RL16 is pretty hard to find these day's so I'm looking for an alternative, I have been trying to read up on the A4350, but the info I see is very old info, I also run the 147gn ELDM pills, very accurate from my barrel with the RL16, I don't hunt just paper punch, I run LRP cases and 40gns of RL16, my velocity's are in 2730fps range, just to give you an idea of what I got going on, question is, is how good or bad is A4350 as far as performance? and will it work with the 147gn pills? your thoughts!

 

[muleystalker]

H4350 is in stock at 5-6 places and has been for quite a while.

 

[Mark611]

That powder doesn't perform like RL16 and it's too expensive! H4350, maxes out in the charge weights and velocity from the book data and from what I've seen from other folks reloading data, as we all know all barrels are different, I get about 100fps faster velocities with RL16 over what the data I've seen with H4350, which is why I'm not interested in H4350, H4350 may outperform A4350 but it also does not cost as much, which is why I asked for A4350 info, but thank you for your input!

 

[cptjack]

I use sw4350 ima clone. was 10.00 lb cheaper. not now

 

[DiffEQ]

I Have never seen or used RL16. For comparison, I load for 7mm-08 and 260 Rem, which can be ballistically similar to 6.5CM.
In order of 4350 burn rate, lo - hi, I find it IMR, H, AA. AA4350 is also the slowest burning you will want to go.
I found AA4350 to be the most accurate for 7mm149gr monos. It wasn't the fastest, but I find it dumb to complain about .3MOA.
Other powders in your load range that you might look for and try:
Western Powders: Hunter or Big Game
Winchester 760
RL17
Vithavouri : N140, N540, N150, N550
You might even check if Varget or IMR 4064 will work for you.
There are other powders I use that aren't listed here, you might do a little research and testing.

 

[Mark611]

Shooter World powders are also hard to find, I have some of their Match Rifle, about 5lbs of I had planned to use in my 6.5GRR after a few test loads, that got stopped as soon as I got my Hands on AR Comp, Comp has pretty much ended my search for other powders for my Grendel's! SW has a powder called LONG RIFLE, is supposed to be a good powder for the 6.5 Creedmoor, anyway I have had good luck with the Accurate powders I have chosen for my 308win and 223/5.56 I load for! I'm hoping to hear good things about A4350, the H powders I still have which is a fair amount of 4895, Varget, H322, will only be used if nothing else is out there, Accurate powder seem to be available and easy to get and reasonably priced, the local shop around me gets shipments about every 2 weeks, and get lots of Accurate powders,

 

[Mark611]

I have about 30lbs of Varget and a few LBS of IMR4064, I have not tried in the Creedmoor, I figured the powders my not work well with the bullets I want to use? I've read where Varget is to slow?

 

[Liven The Dream]

On A-4350 to H-4350 .
A-4350 is 2 to 2.5 grs. slower in a .284.
A-4350 gives very accurate loads in testing even at slower velocity.
A-4350 the price is lower, for now.
Weather is holding me back from testing at this time.

Hope this is some help?

 

[Mark611]

Thank you SIR!

 

[Mark611]

LR also Report your findings when you get a chance!

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I loaded 42.5 grains of accurate 4350 behind 140 grain Speer Hot Cores for a hog load in the 6.5 Creedmoor. I liked working with the powder as it is finer and more short cut than the imr version.
On your 147 Eldm bullet, Hornady manual shows a max load of 41.2 Accurate 4350 where RL16 shows a max of 41.5. The RL16 shows 100 FPS more speed.
As usual start with lower charges and work up to be safe in your rifle

 

[Mark611]

Thank you KM, what were you chrono numbers with your loads?

 

[358WCF]

The 2021 made lot of A4350 I have is significantly slower than the other 4350s, except for Shooter's World 4350 which is even a touch slower yet. I haven't tried it in Creedmoor, but couldn't fit enough into my 22-250 Ackley to get up to speed. H & IMR 4350 in certain lots is my preferred powder in that case. You may have trouble getting enough in the CM case for best velocity & enough pressure for a clean burn.

A4350 does work nicely in my 280 Rem. where it very closely resembles IMR4831. Yes, it's that slow.

RL16 for 125s & RL26 for 140s have proven optimal in my CM.

 

[Mark611]

What kind of numbers are you getting with the RL26 with the 140's? and what's you barrel length?

 

[jepp2]

how good or bad is A4350 as far as performance?

I have one data point. I shot a 10 shot ladder in my 6 CM using it to get velocities. Left the outside of the brass filthy and I haven't been back to it since. There are other powders in that burn rate I much prefer, and I shoot a lot of H4350 and RL 16.

 

[358WCF]

What kind of numbers are you getting with the RL26 with the 140's? and what's you barrel length?

I'm getting 2895fps @ 10' instrumental @ 80* from a 22" barrel. It's warm but the brass (Hornady... it's all there was 3 yrs ago) is still holding up fine. A gr. more seems to shoot a wee bit smaller & gives me another 50fps, but is noted as absolute max in my notes as another 1/2 gr. gave notable bolt lift.

 

[Laurie]

Shooters World powders are from Explosia a.s. in the Czech Republic and have been continuously available to us in the UK under the Lovex brand name for most of this century, and before that to both us and you in the US under the old pre-Western Powders Accurate Arms Co.

Lovex S070 = SW4350 = pre-2003 Accurate Arms XMR4350

Lovex S065 = SW 'Long Rifle' and is a post 2003 introduction so has no old AAC equivalent.

Lovex S062 = SW 'Precision' = pre 2003 AAC-4064

Lovex S060 = no SW version = pre 2003 AAC XMR2015BR

They are all excellent powders, perform consistently, but are relatively low energy. Not the powders to seek out as Alliant Re16 equivalents. S070/SW4350 is very slow burning, much more so than H4350. I couldn't get enough into a 7mm-08 Lapua case to achieve H4350 MVs with the 160gn SMK in a long-freebore chamber. It's so 'slow' in fact, that I'm going to do a comparison test against H4831sc in 284 Win / 180gn. If you run them in QuickLOAD, S062/65/70 and their SW equivalents' default values overstate pressures / MVs considerably.

I have been running side by side tests for a couple of years now for European REACH-compliant alternatives to first H4350, now VarGet and H4895 and writing up the results in www.targetshooter.co.uk. (Under the EU REACH regulations, we have lost all older IMRs, all Hodgdon Extreme Extruded (made by ADI), and most Hodgdon and Winchester 'spherical' / ball powders from St. Marks, Florida.)

The first of these features has the H4350 Benchmark results; the second includes Re16 and SW4350/Lovex S070 so they can be compared in this application.

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3624

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3657

Note in the second piece, the reference to the old Handloader magazine comparison of IMR / H / AAC XMR 4350s and that the Czech powder produced three figures lower MVs in 243 Win and 30-06 loads compared to its IMR and Hodgdon equivalents using the same rifles, components and charge weight.

Note also, that the present day Accurate-4350 you have in the US (but we don't have in the UK as it's not REACH compliant) is a yet different powder from a different source (General Dynamics Inc Valleyfield plant in Quebec Province, Canada.)

 

[Mark611]

WOW! that's a wealth of information for sure! I'm grateful for you time in posting this information, I could not get the first link to open but the rest of the read was excellent! Thank you!

 

[Laurie]

I could not get the first link to open

Edited - now works

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Thank you KM, what were you chrono numbers with your loads?

I didn’t have time to chrono that load yet, but I will. It was matching my other 140 poa load and that’s as for as I got.