A tale of Two Dies --- What's happening?

[amlevin]

Have a Redding FL bushing die for 284W that appears to have too long of a chamber on it which would prevent any setting back of the case's shoulder. Also without the bushing in the die, and looking through the die you see not a circle but three arcs with tangent lines between them. Putting new Lapua brass (6.5-284) into the thing engraves the top of the shoulder with the three arcs, which together seem helical in nature (like a bolt thread). No wonder the die was on sale at Midway.
Anyone else having quality control problems with Redding?

I'm not sure QC problems today are specific to any manufacturer. With the demand for all the reloading tools and equipment today "factories" are turning out as much as they can. An unintended consequence may well be an increase in faulty product slipping though. What may have been rejected in the past because it didn't meet the inspector's standards may well be shipped anyway on orders of he "corporate controller" that can't stand seeing all those back orders on the books.

In many cases we, the customer, get to be the "final finish department". If I can I'll just fix the problem rather than returning the item and then be forced to wait until the backlog to clear up and receive a replacement.

For the "lines" you described in your die, you may want to take a piece of hardwood dowel, cut the end to the same shoulder angle as he 284 W, and then polish out the lines using a fine polishing compound from the Auto Parts store.

Use a dowel that fits the die snugly but can still be rotated easily. Clamp the top of the die in a vise then use the dowel you've modified like you were lapping valves on a cylinder head or lawnmower engine.

When done then "shorten" the die until it gives you the desired amount of shoulder bump.

Then mark the die with your name and the work "Custom". That will enhance the dies value immensely (at least to you 8))

 

[bigedp51]

Lee die lock ring with rubber o-ring on RCBS die.

Rubber o-ring under the guide bushing and not under the lock nut.

The o-ring on the "centered" decapping rod "assembly".

The expander decapping rod and expander ball are first centered with a lubed case in the shell holder and the decapping rod locknut loose. On the down stroke as the expander ball just starts to enter the neck and "CENTERS" tighten the decapping rod locknut. Remove guide bushing and decapping rod as one assembly and install o-ring on the guide bushing and reinstall. Now the die and expander button will both "float" and self center.

Ever wonder where the slop and misalignment come from?

I never "run out" on a good posting.

 

[Grimstod]

I pointed this out to my wife who's always telling me to clean out the drawer. I took the opportunity to point out how much time, money, gas, and aggravation, that this "drawer" saved me

You didn't do this with valentines day so near by did you?

This thread has been very interesting. Can't wait to get back home to try some of these ideas.

 

[58weasel]

Thanks for the tip about the valve polishing of the shoulder and rim die length for my 284W. I think you are likely right about the quickest way to fix the problem. Funny story. I emialed Redding about getting a shorter shell holder and got a call from an exasperated fellow saying there was no way Redding would ever make a shell holder that short. Apparently my Lyman was as short as the industry makes them, so I learned something new there. Got the impression that the Redding fellow was overwhelmed with complaints, and I was the "last straw". Supposed I was a new reloader.

Anyway I complemented Redding about my 6XC die set and that seemed to calm him down. Sent Redding one of the engraved cases, but didn't ask for a new die, as I really don't know how the die will perform with a fired case. All in due course. I suspect with the adjustments you suggest the die will be satisfactory or, who knows, maybe even excellent.

It is not a perfect world. Making our own "work arounds" rather than demanding utopia is often the path of least resistance. I'd rather reload and shoot than converse with Redding anyway. But the manufacturer should always be given a "heads up" so they can trouble shoot they process if they so choose.

We owe that to all the good folks that need to make a profit so they can keep the dies coming as the shooting sports evolve.

 

[hogan]

Suggest you use Forster, or older RCBS style, cross-bolt lock rings so die doesn't cant.

Also, try locking the depriming rod when the pin is through the flash hole. Worth your while also to take crocus paper and polish the expander ball, reducing it in diameter a thousandth or more; usually they are overly large.

Wouldn't worry about polishing the die interior. Most of the error will come from press alignment. Using a quality press? Something like the Redding Ultra Mag has the die mount adapter that can be removed and taken to a machinist to be ground to perfect uniform surface. Maybe do it yourself, if you have gage block to assure perfect surface.

Redding type S FL dies are very fine to tailor cases to your chamber's actual dimension. Other best solution is a custom die or go to a Wilson's arbor press type. Got a Lee Loader? See what your brass reads in terms of runout when you size them w/your Lee. Might be surprised.

 

[s100whunter]

A CO-AX press will fix most of the runout problem

 

[dannyjbiggs]

I doubt that he has .003 to .004 variation in neck clearance thickness. Reread my last post. It is not some guess. I proved it years ago, by experimentation and careful measurement. Unfortunately there are many who have not done that work. Another way to make a bad dies results better is to use it without the expander and expand as a second step with an expander die and mandrel, with lube of course. In the case of a die with too small of a neck ID, this will give smaller runout than using the die's expander. Again, this has been confirmed by actual test with a significant number of cases.

Amen to that technique! My FL dies are all custom made, and without the expander stems...less machining means less cost, but that is not the reason for doing it. Reduced price is just a spinoff.

Dan

 

[mikecr]

I agree also, and use Sinclair expander mandrels myself.
I didn't know OP had turned necks, and was expanding with his dies.

 

[amlevin]

This picture illustrates perfectly why I went to the carbide expander ball.

My cheap camera doesn't do the finish total justice. It's actually smooth enough I can't feel any drag at all when I pull a fingernail across it. It appears to have a 20 micro-inch or less finish on it.

 

[bigedp51]

My cheap camera doesn't do the finish total justice. It's actually smooth enough I can't feel any drag at all when I pull a fingernail across it. It appears to have a 20 micro-inch or less finish on it.

I was referring to the roughly made threads and tooling marks on the decapping rod assembly, this could cause the rod and expander to be tilted off center.

Any cartridge fired in a M1, M1A or AR15 can also have the inside of the extractor groove damaged and on the down stroke of the ram this can tilt the case in the shell holder. This is where a expander die comes in handy and expands the neck with down pressure pressing against the base of the case.