A smaller 20…….thoughts input

[JSH]

Inventory on my 32-34 grain bullets makes me think I should build a smaller than 204R rifle.

I am setting pretty well on powder that will work well in a 221 size case. BUT the 221 brass is as scarce as ever.

I then look at the 20-222/20 Turbo,just because brass is some what easier to obtain than the 221. I have not looked hard here to see what powders are used with best results.

I see there is an option on 221 brass made from 5.56/223. I have read some mixed review on it.
I am surprised Starline doesn’t offer 221 brass, even 20VT stamped I don’t see a huge problem.

Actions, maybe another XP. I wouldn’t have to think twice I could find a good price on a Howa Mini. Tossed around the idea of a Bergara, if the CF is as slick as the RF action I would be happy.


I know there are a number of gents here with the above mentioned or variations of. There has to be a fair number of folks that don’t speak up as well.

Look forward to input from all

 

[L.Sherm]

Options using 223 brass are endless, i dont know what reviews you have read on reformed 223 brass to 20VT but I've got probably 1,000 cases made that way that I have made and if your into turning necks i see no problems. I use LC 223 brass and start necking down with doubled ended forming dies then cut the long neck off with a mini chop saw that I made a stop for anneal then run through my FL die and then turn the necks, if your really annal about consistency you can set up your neck turning a little thick from your desired final thickness and do a final skim cut after you fire them once. It depends on how much time you want to spend on it.
I beauty of doing that is 223 brass is easier to get your hands on and once you have the initial expense keep a supply of 223 brass and no worries.

 

[SShooterZ]

Options using 223 brass are endless, i dont know what reviews you have read on reformed 223 brass to 20VT but I've got probably 1,000 cases made that way that I have made and if your into turning necks i see no problems. I use LC 223 brass and start necking down with doubled ended forming dies then cut the long neck off with a mini chop saw that I made a stop for anneal then run through my FL die and then turn the necks, if your really annal about consistency you can set up your neck turning a little thick from your desired final thickness and do a final skim cut after you fire them once. It depends on how much time you want to spend on it.
I beauty of doing that is 223 brass is easier to get your hands on and once you have the initial expense keep a supply of 223 brass and no worries.

All of this is correct. I specifically bought the tools needed to transform .223 to .20VT as the supply of .223 brass is endless and there are many quality options to choose from.

 

[SmokinJoe]

I made my 22SJ brass from Lapua 223 brass and it was pretty easy once I got the pbike forming set, and I would recommend an extended shellholder also. 221/20VT body is a little longer so it should be a little easier than my 22SJ. As was said by sherm, you will also need one of those little chop saws from Harbor Freight or similar, and you will need to anneal once or twice in the process. It's a good winter/covid project and you will learn a lot in the process + help is available here and on saubier.

 

[B23]

The 20-222 is a great option. Lapua 222 brass is usually in stock at many different places and cost, especially, when compared to its quality is an extremely good value. I use Redding 222 bushing die for my sizing and a Redding 222 Comp seater for my 20-222 and they both work very well.

There isn't much to not like about the 20-222.

 

[Rick in Oregon]

JSH, as you have not decided on the exact case yet, I'll throw in a strong "plus" to go 20VT. As has been said, forming from 5.56 is really not an issue unless you don't have the time or are just lazy. There are other good options of course, but the case volume vs. bore diameter are just about perfect for this little gem. There is good availability of 221FB brass from Nosler most of the time if you can't find Lapua or R-P.

Miserly on powder, see all your hits/misses, wicked accurate, absence of recoil and muzzle blast and terminal performance on rodent sized targets to 500 yards. My "long shot" on squirrels at present is 509 yards.

It even "looks right"......



I really like the fact that the 20VT gives right at 3,800 fps w/32gr bullets from only 18.5~grs of powder. It really is "miserly" when compared to any larger case. Good stuff....you need one.

 

[JSH]

I have formed brass for a lot of obsolete cartridges and other wildcats. It was fun the first few K.
The last big batch of 256 WM I did for a buddy wore me out.
Years ago when the 300 Whisper was new, we made a lot of brass. That was fairly easy job for that one. We made a jig to clamp cases in and then cut them about 6-8 at a time in a fine tooth band saw to rough length
I hear great things about the PBike forming dies. I was to slow on the button when he offered up the last ones.
Bullberry I have heard has a similar double ended die. Anyone used one?

I don’t look forward to having to neck turn 500 of the 20’s.

 

[Bill K]

A no brainer, 20 VarTarg. Cases are not an issue. You can find some factory i.e. Nosler, etc. here and there, but it is not a real problem to form from 223 brass, either factory or LC/military.
And there are some that make and sell the form brass, so brass is really a non issue to worry about.
You will love the 20 VT and it will amaze you on it's preformance.

 

[rich44]

I have formed brass for a lot of obsolete cartridges and other wildcats. It was fun the first few K.
The last big batch of 256 WM I did for a buddy wore me out.
Years ago when the 300 Whisper was new, we made a lot of brass. That was fairly easy job for that one. We made a jig to clamp cases in and then cut them about 6-8 at a time in a fine tooth band saw to rough length
I hear great things about the PBike forming dies. I was to slow on the button when he offered up the last ones.
Bullberry I have heard has a similar double ended die. Anyone used one?

I don’t look forward to having to neck turn 500 of the 20’s.

I'll have to go with the 20VT also, its my favorite out of all the 20's I have and forming brass wasn't really all that bad,
a couple of winters ago I formed 2000 cases from LC13 brass in a couple weeks, I have also used Norma and Lapua 221 brass but prefer the LC reformed brass.

 

[SBS]

I use R-P .221 FB brass (not impossible to find) in my 20 VT, shoots in the .2's, little recoil and even less throat wear. All you need inside 300 yds. I know other shooters take them farther out, but this is the majority of our PD shooting and we have bigger rounds for the longer shots. Also have a .20-.222 and like it, but caliber specific dies are much more expensive than ones for the VT. Our VT reamer is no turn neck; I also don't like turning a large volume of necks.

 

[L.Sherm]

My 3 doubled ended forming dies are from Bullberry i got probably 15 years ago, they work great just necking down other wildcats also. I initially bought them to make 17 Pee Wee brass from 30 carbine which I probably made 1,000 cases of those too, before I started buying Calhoun badger brass and converted over the to 17 Badger

 

[Tommie]

Count me in with the lazy camp. Making Vartarg brass from .223 is a lot of work. I definitely think a 20-222 is a great “smallish” .20 caliber and all that’s needed for reloading is off the shelf .222 Rem bushing dies. Sort of the same idea as the .20 Practical.

 

[B23]

Also have a .20-.222 and like it, but caliber specific dies are much more expensive than ones for the VT.

Confused by this statement.

I don't use caliber specific dies for my 20-222. Like I stated before I use standard Redding 222 bushing dies with the appropriate size bushing for my sizing die and a Redding 222 seating die to seat the 20 caliber bullets. I don't even know if they make a caliber specific 20-222 die set. I have multiple straight neck down cartridges (6CM, 6-284, 20-250) and I don't use caliber specific dies for any of them I load them all with standard Redding bushing dies for their parent case.

Last time I looked at Redding 20VT dies they were considerably more expensive than Redding 222 dies not to mention usually a special order.

A 20 cal off of the Fireball case would fun, if you find the right action and you want it as a repeater, but I'd do a straight 20-221 and be done.

 

[SBS]

A Redding .222 bushing die does not size the neck all the way down like all other bushing dies I am familiar with. Hornady makes a FL sizing die for the .20-222, but I should have asked the price before I chambered the barrel. It was $200 plus shipping for just the FL die a few years ago.. A set of Hornady .20 VT FL/Seater dies are not much more than many "standard" caliber dies.

 

[JEFFPPC]

If you want easy and accurate but not smaller why not the 220 Russian case used to make the PPC case but just neck it down and shoot it as is.

 

[L.Sherm]

A Redding .222 bushing die does not size the neck all the way down like all other bushing dies I am familiar with.

This is were my Forming die shines it necks it down all the way to the neck.
Its why I dont use bushings to neck down, after that I dont want it sized all the way to the shoulder

 

[EvanB]

Inventory on my 32-34 grain bullets makes me think I should build a smaller than 204R rifle.

I am setting pretty well on powder that will work well in a 221 size case. BUT the 221 brass is as scarce as ever.

I then look at the 20-222/20 Turbo,just because brass is some what easier to obtain than the 221. I have not looked hard here to see what powders are used with best results.

I see there is an option on 221 brass made from 5.56/223. I have read some mixed review on it.
I am surprised Starline doesn’t offer 221 brass, even 20VT stamped I don’t see a huge problem.

Actions, maybe another XP. I wouldn’t have to think twice I could find a good price on a Howa Mini. Tossed around the idea of a Bergara, if the CF is as slick as the RF action I would be happy.


I know there are a number of gents here with the above mentioned or variations of. There has to be a fair number of folks that don’t speak up as well.

Look forward to input from all

The .17-223 sounds like the answer, for a while but it has its' issues too. Look at the .20 Practical. Use .223 brass with just a bit of eazy resizing and you have all the .20 bullets to selext from. Barrels available in AR configurations pretty easy. Harder to find for bolt actions but some are available. Might rechamber a .204 barrel (Ruger, Savage or Rem most likely).

 

[SmokinJoe]

For sizing dies, I have become a fan of standard FL dies with the neck custom honed to the desired size. You can do that yourself with lapping mandrels from MSC, etc. and some lapping compound. Do a search and there is a good article on doing it. If you can't find factory dies at a reasonable price contact Whidden's and have them make a custom bushing or non-bushing sizer.

 

[JSH]

If you want easy and accurate but not smaller why not the 220 Russian case used to make the PPC case but just neck it down and shoot it as is.

I am waiting on a 20BR barrel as we speak ;-).

I have and shoot 17FB, 17 Remington and 204 Ruger. Happy with all of them for what I expect from them. The 17 FB sees nothing but 20 grain bullets, 17 Remington 25 grain and up, the 204 sees 39’s and 40’s and the 20 BR will hopefully like the 55’s.
The 204 Ruger’s I have will shoot 32 and 34’s pretty good, but seem to like powder charges that give little in return, excluding CFE 223 which gives some ridiculous speeds with acceptable accuracy.

Kind of like using the right size rachet for the job, why reduce a 3/4” drive down to 1/4” to use with a 9/32 socket.

 

[rich44]

I am waiting on a 20BR barrel as we speak ;-).

I have and shoot 17FB, 17 Remington and 204 Ruger. Happy with all of them for what I expect from them. The 17 FB sees nothing but 20 grain bullets, 17 Remington 25 grain and up, the 204 sees 39’s and 40’s and the 20 BR will hopefully like the 55’s.
The 204 Ruger’s I have will shoot 32 and 34’s pretty good, but seem to like powder charges that give little in return, excluding CFE 223 which gives some ridiculous speeds with acceptable accuracy.

Kind of like using the right size rachet for the job, why reduce a 3/4” drive down to 1/4” to use with a 9/32 socket.

I have a 20br and a 20-250 they are both 9 twist barrels and both shoot the 55gr Berger with RL15 very well, they are a absolute hammer on groundhogs, try Blaines Blackhole 45gr cupbase .204 bullet I can get over 4000 fps with it in my 20br and it's devastating on groundhogs