A shocking lack of safe gun handling practices

[Rope2horns]

Just an ECI/chamber flag doesn't guarantee a safe rifle.

Visual inspection by a fellow competitor with the bolt removed and ECI inserted is the safest option. Should be a standing rule IMO.

 

[topclass2017]

A couple of responses mention assuming the rifle is empty for whatever reason...that to me is disconcerting. Somewhere I've read that are more accidents with firearms that are "assumed" to be unloaded than anything else. About the only assumption that should be made is that the firearm is loaded until proven otherwise. (My grandson knows I store my forearms unloaded, but whenever he comes to borrow one from my safe he always checks the chamber. And when I go to retrieve it from him, I do the same.)

I have participated in matches where the RSO or match director gave one warning for violating basic safety protocol. the next offense received an invitation to leave.

I would have spoken up to the match director.

 

[saunaking]

Just an ECI/chamber flag doesn't guarantee a safe rifle.

Visual inspection by a fellow competitor with the bolt removed and ECI inserted is the safest option. Should be a standing rule IMO.

That's the way it is in New Zealand when I shoot there. The scorer has to do a visual inspection before the ECI can be put in the rifle and removed from the line. Your bolt has to be removed until the next time you are set up to fire on the line. Some of us have loose fitting ECI's that fall out if the bolt isn't in them, that needs to be addressed

 

[AlNyhus]

I'm on the BOD at a private range. We have a strict 'bolts out' policy or chamber flag and mag removed for semi auto stuff. They get one polite but firm reminder from me.

 

[243winxb]

My club requires a Rifle Chamber Safety Flag be used when not on the firing line.
Club supplies them at no cost to the shooters.

 

[Dgd6mm]

ARA Matches, bolts out, ECI inserted.

 

[F Class John]

I agree with @ORjeff and I'll admit I'm as guilty as the next guy at a match of saying "it's what the club allows for gun handling so there's nothing that can be done" but that's probably not good enough especially when something like sweeping is occurring. I know I should set a better example but peer pressure is a bitch sometimes and nobody wants to be 'that guy' at someone else's range.

But I also a believer EVERY gun is loaded, always, period. I case and uncase at the line every time because first off I just think it's safer and easier for me, but I've also never been part of a club that allowed anything else. So when I go to matches where people can carry guns to the back line, racks or their cars I'm always on alert. Every club I've been to around the country has different rules about gun handling from what I've seen and it's not something exclusive to F Class in any way. I will say benchrest as a whole seems to have a pretty great philosophy of bolts out where done firing, end of story. My understanding is that European (and maybe other countries) also have a unilateral bolts out policy even for F Class.

FWIW, I've seen cases either in person or by account in both F Class and PRS where a 'safe and flagged' gun magically fired a round for one reason or another. In one case someone was killed, in another it went into the air with an unknown trajectory.

I've also personally seen a gun on the line that had a flag in it where I was on the non-port side of the gun and someone on the port side called out that there was a round IN the chamber and after the shooter protested multiple times that there was a flag so that couldn't be the case, he proceeded to pull the flag, close the bolt and upon opening the bolt a loaded round popped out. SO yes, flags are good, but they are not foolproof. It's why I'm a huge fan of those 12" long ones I see more and more of. In this particular case I believe he had a very short one that was less of a chamber flag and more of a 'you can't close the bolt' flag which I'm not a fan of for this exact reason.

For V2 and local matches at my club, we mandate that every shooter gets a visual inspection from another shooter and insert chamber flags before a gun leaves the line. I think it's good policy and if people are offended by having to ask someone to look at their gun, they shouldn't be on the line.

At the end of the day I'm going to sound like my father, but gun safety is everyone's responsibility whether new or old and anything that makes someone uncomfortable should be addressed so that nobody worries for their safety.

 

[dthomas]

Most matches I attend do not tolerate sweeping someone with your muzzle. But rifles are stored on a back bench or on the ground facing away from the firing line which means they are facing the parking lot and people are walking in front of them. I'm not to fond of that part.

 

[Chaotik]

At the Long Range Benchrest matches that I have attended, the bolt must be removed before the rifle is taken off the line. Chamber flags are sometimes used. Most shooters then take the rifle and place it in a cradle on benches behind the firing line, where they may clean it between relays.

 

[JMayo]

Competition rifle -
Bolts out during cease fire. No exceptions. I've never seen anyone put one in.

Cleaning is done where it's done.

 

[Downeast]

We used to hold some pistol matches here at the house and we always operated a "hot range". Everybody knew that everything was loaded. Made for a very safe environment since the most common excuse of "I didn't know it was loaded" became moot.

 

[jelenko]

'safe and flagged' gun magically fired a round for one reason or another

Exactly. It's those 'it'll never happen' cases - that do happen, even if hardly ever. The problem is the consequences.

 

[Tangent]

Bolts out and chamber visually checked by the RCO before the rifle is bagged and taken off the line is what I see here. No bolt seems the safest way, impossible to fire, but as others have said I treat them as always loaded. It doesn't pay to get too comfortable.

 

[ChrisNZ]

Just an ECI/chamber flag doesn't guarantee a safe rifle.

Visual inspection by a fellow competitor with the bolt removed and ECI inserted is the safest option. Should be a standing rule IMO.

That's the rule on NZ ranges. The scorer (or someone else) must confirm by looking through the barrel after the bolt has been removed that there is nothing in the chamber, then an ECI inserted. Hopefully at that point, everyone is fully safe.

 

[Jon Leary]

On Memorial Day, we attended a service at a small rural cemetery where my wife's father is buried (WW2 Purple Heart recipient for injuries at the Battle Of The Bulge). The VFW Honor Guard did a very good job but how they handled the M1's was more than a bit scary. One member put the butt on the ground, grabbed the muzzle and with it pointed right at his face...tried to cycle it with his right foot.

The service over, all 10 M1's...not unloaded...got piled into a lump in the back of a pickup and off they went to the next cemetery.

I asked about how they handled loading the guns. They loaded them full in the morning, shot two at each service and had four services.

They think they are safe because they use blanks.

 

[cavedweller60]

It seems that most competitive shooting sports have "safety" rules far different than those taught in NRA, USCCA, etc classes. It seems like they all violate the normally adhered to rules of safe gun handling.

In BR, they use bolts out but, people are handling guns while other people are down range.

In the shotgun sports, people, primarily with SA shotguns, stand with the barrel on their toes.

In XTC matches, ECIs are used but, it is not uncommon for guns to be handled while people are forward of the firing line.

My wife competes in precision pistol and, it's the only sport I've seen where safety rules are at least as stringent as the rules of safe gun handling taught in classes. In fact, they take it to a different and, in my opinion, ridiculous level.

The clubs we have been at don't even allow the empty pistols, secure inside the range boxes, to be pointed any other direction than down range AND, even though they are secured inside the boxes, they have to have an ECI inserted. There is no gun handling of any kind when people are down range and if you are not down range, you have to stand behind the safety line to the rear of the benches. If you are watching and not shooting, you also have to stand behind the safety line. I'm not sure if that is the case at every bullseye match but, it is that way in our region of the country.

 

[mtncwru]

My understanding is that European (and maybe other countries) also have a unilateral bolts out policy even for F Class.

My experience with visiting European (and other international) shooters is the exact opposite in both highpower and smallbore: whole lotta folks leaving bolts in and closed with no verification of an empty chamber. The range we were on didn't enforce bolts out, but did require open bolt + ECI (and happily provided them if you needed one).

I've also watched a well known F-class shooter, who also happened to be a recently certified Range Safety Officer, "check that his rounds would chamber" while we had people setting up downrange. Fortunately he never closed the bolt before the OIC and duty RSO intervened, but it was definitely a surprise to see that from someone who I would expect to have a very different mindset.

 

[Blaster 1]

My experience with visiting European (and other international) shooters is the exact opposite in both highpower and smallbore: whole lotta folks leaving bolts in and closed with no verification of an empty chamber. The range we were on didn't enforce bolts out, but did

I've also watched a well known F-class shooter, who also happened to be a recently certified Range Safety Officer, "check that his rounds would chamber" while we had people setting up downrange. Fortunately he never closed the bolt before the OCI and duty RSO intervened, but it was definitely a surprise to see that from someone who I would expect to have a very different mindset.

I was at a f class match just finished shooting a team match a guy put he's gun in a cart and it fired not much was said to him put he left

 

[Will Henry]

I have seen everything from competitors sitting at the bench looking through their scopes, while the targets were being changed (believe it or not, this was quite common 55 years ago. Nearly makes me ill to think about it now); to people being kicked off the range for cleaning a rifle while targets were being changed. At one venue, you could take your gear to the line, but the muzzle could not be pointed downrange while the target pullers were getting ready. It could, however, be pointed back at the spectators. At the silhouette matches, it is generally muzzles up with ECI flags in place. It behooves all of us to be extra careful and be certain of safety. I try to be aware of each range's rule, knowing that they may vary. When I'm shooting with other people, it's my job to make sure they are comfortable with my behavior. Times and expectations have changed, and I am aware I have to change with them. WH

 

[243winxb]

My state game commission range. I seen.......
1. Shot fired while person changing target at 100 yards.

2. Person walks to 25 yard target, without calling a ceasefire. 3 other people shooting at 50 yards. Same firing line/range.

3. Guy shooting on my target. Told him to "stop". Again shoots on my target, no accident. Just the 2 of us on the firing line. Him 22lr, me 223. What would you do?

A. My gun club......
1. Flintlock fired 15 feet to my left. Chip from flint hit 1/2" below my left eye. Draws blood. Should have had my blinders on my shooting glasses.


2. Guy with muzzle loader seating bullet by bumping ram rod against a pole. Muzzle pointed right at me. Called him on it. He pointed it in a different direction, towards another guy shooting archery. I turned around, went home.