A scorer's duties

[memilanuk]

I still can't find anything in the rule book about who should call for a mark, but I did find a reference about who should know the proper commands for such things and when to use them. The first person listed is the scorer. The shooter is not mentioned.

...probably because the scorer is the proxy for the shooter, who cannot easily get up out of position and hunt down the range officer busy B.S.-ing down at the other end of the line.

If you want to get particular about it, the rules also say the scorer should be positioned two paces back from the firing line. How often do you see that?

Definitely my 2015 question for the ref at the Nationals.

Typically the NRA refs we get, nice guys all I'm sure, but I haven't met very many that have ever shot F-class. We're lucky if they've shot enough HP to at least be familiar with that portion of the rule book, let alone section 22. Not sure I'd hang my hat on what the Ref says....

 

[memilanuk]

The competitor took a shot and the target did not go down. As a scorer, it is your duty to get each shot scored and record the score. Yes, it is the competitor's block of time, but it is your responsibility to get the score. The shooter may have realized that he or she just shot the wrong target and maybe by not calling for a mark it will be overlooked. This can easily occur if the scorer is new or asleep or whatnot. Acting as a scorer, if I see my shooter take a shot and the target does not go down, I believe it is my duty to call for a mark and record whatever comes up.

As has been mentioned... the scorer should not be 'glued' to the scope, and hopefully somewhat aware of whats going on around them. If your shooter fired, and the target didn't go down... one would hope that maybe you'd notice someone nearby complaining that their target got pulled out from under them, that they didn't shoot, etc. But hey, it could be 10 firing points away (seen it happen) and those are kind of hard to just 'overhear' on a busy firing line. Either way, if you see the shooter making ready for another shot, *then* I would point out that the pits never pulled the target, and that you have no score for his previous shot. Typically that tends to keep 'em honest... they're going to get a miss either way - it can either be a cross-fire, or it can be something else. Scores the same as far as I'm concerned, but most folks become a little more forthright at the hint that they might have been going to just fire another shot and pretend that never happened.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I still can't find anything in the rule book about who should call for a mark, but I did find a reference about who should know the proper commands for such things and when to use them. The first person listed is the scorer. The shooter is not mentioned.

...probably because the scorer is the proxy for the shooter, who cannot easily get up out of position and hunt down the range officer busy B.S.-ing down at the other end of the line.

If you want to get particular about it, the rules also say the scorer should be positioned two paces back from the firing line. How often do you see that?

Yep, saw that. I try to position myself as a scorer about where the shooter's knees are. I do not want to be in his or her peripheral vision and certainly nowhere that would interfere with his of her ammo and trigger pulling.

The firing line being usually in front of the barrel, I would say that's pretty close to two paces, maybe a little over.

I usually see people sitting way behind the shooter and that's why a lot of them bellow out the score and round count. I don't remember every seeing any scorer right next to the face of the shooter, but I don't pay much attention to others; I'm focused on my shooter.

Definitely my 2015 question for the ref at the Nationals.

Typically the NRA refs we get, nice guys all I'm sure, but I haven't met very many that have ever shot F-class. We're lucky if they've shot enough HP to at least be familiar with that portion of the rule book, let alone section 22. Not sure I'd hang my hat on what the Ref says....

I suspect you're right; they don't do F-class. However, the question here is not unique to F-class and the refs I've spoken with over the last 4-some years (two of them I believe,) seemed quite knowledgeable about the rules and could point to the ones I was asking clarification on.

I see both sides of this little debate and I'm ambivalent. Maybe an email to the NRA is in order. I've done several of those also, but they were more to do with awards, and match director crap.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

The competitor took a shot and the target did not go down. As a scorer, it is your duty to get each shot scored and record the score. Yes, it is the competitor's block of time, but it is your responsibility to get the score. The shooter may have realized that he or she just shot the wrong target and maybe by not calling for a mark it will be overlooked. This can easily occur if the scorer is new or asleep or whatnot. Acting as a scorer, if I see my shooter take a shot and the target does not go down, I believe it is my duty to call for a mark and record whatever comes up.

As has been mentioned... the scorer should not be 'glued' to the scope, and hopefully somewhat aware of whats going on around them. If your shooter fired, and the target didn't go down... one would hope that maybe you'd notice someone nearby complaining that their target got pulled out from under them, that they didn't shoot, etc. But hey, it could be 10 firing points away (seen it happen) and those are kind of hard to just 'overhear' on a busy firing line. Either way, if you see the shooter making ready for another shot, *then* I would point out that the pits never pulled the target, and that you have no score for his previous shot. Typically that tends to keep 'em honest... they're going to get a miss either way - it can either be a cross-fire, or it can be something else. Scores the same as far as I'm concerned, but most folks become a little more forthright at the hint that they might have been going to just fire another shot and pretend that never happened.

Crossfires are fairly rare, and the last one I detected and scored was maybe 4 years ago. I think. What I do get are dirty looks from the shooter when I don't call for a mark quickly enough.

My bottom line is that the scorer MUST get the target scored for every shot fired by his shooter and the call of "who crossfired?" should never come up. The scorers should know that occurred with their shooters, no need to disturb the line with that.

If you think the shooter should be the one to call for a mark every time, I'm fine with that, as long as each shot is marked and that means the target goes in the pits before the next shot is taken. This does not seem to happen all the time and that's why I started this thread.

 

[RStewart]

I try to position myself as a scorer about where the shooter's knees are. I do not want to be in his or her peripheral vision and certainly nowhere that would interfere with his of her ammo and trigger pulling.

Try having a guy sit way behind the shooter as you mention. The shooter's name just happens to be Mark. Now you're calling the match and you constantly keep hearing someone yell out "Mark..pause...shot 9 was a 10, Mark..pause...shot 10 was a X..." I kept waiting for a target number to be called to be marked, but it wasn't. It was followed after a pause with a score for the shot. It made for "fun" times.
So we also try to get the scorer up next to the shooter's knee.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yeah, we have a guy called Marc something or other, but he never calls for one.


Oh wait, that's not right.

 

[Lapua40X]

... We are all at the mercy of the human factor in F class. I was just explaining to someone last night about being Flexible with our shooting style to survive in F class.

Thanks for that level headed response, Mike. I'm a very long way from a "boy" but my first experience at scoring F class scared the dickens out of me. Pairing me up with one of the stop shooters in the country made matters even worse. I was so afraid I'd make a mistake. The gentleman I was scoring for explained what was needed. He encouraged me to just try my best and didn't get excited over the few errors I made. He won the match in spite of my novice performance, and he won my respect for his patience and understanding.

 

[wolley]

Same match. TSRA LR Championship. And this happened twice. Only one recounted. Target numbers have been changed to protect the guilty.
I'm working the line and I hear target 4 hollering that that they didn't shoot. Shortly thereafter I hear target 14 calling for a mark. I suspect the obvious and hustle over to 14 while listening to 4 complain about his target going down, again. 14 is asking for another mark. Standing behind the shooter on 14 it is obvious that he is lined up on 4. Another case of the scorer not having his head in the game. I won't mention the F-class shooter not noticing the huge X-ring of the sling target.
Shooters have responsibility also. We had a weird line where some points were switching back and forth from sling to F-class. Even though we communicated to the pits to swap targets it got missed a couple of times. In one case the shooter fired 7 rounds on an F-class target before he noticed it. Then he wanted to start fresh with 30 more minutes. Tough noogies! I'll give the you shots over but you and your scorer should have noticed sooner.

 

[Immike]

... We are all at the mercy of the human factor in F class. I was just explaining to someone last night about being Flexible with our shooting style to survive in F class.

Thanks for that level headed response, Mike. I'm a very long way from a "boy" but my first experience at scoring F class scared the dickens out of me. Pairing me up with one of the stop shooters in the country made matters even worse. I was so afraid I'd make a mistake. The gentleman I was scoring for explained what was needed. He encouraged me to just try my best and didn't get excited over the few errors I made. He won the match in spite of my novice performance, and he won my respect for his patience and understanding.

If you can controll your emotions then you have a much better chance at shooting good scores. Like Erik mentioned , your best move is to bring your squad together for a team talk. Your performance depends on them so make them stronger with words of encouragement. Give them the prospect of winning with your help and they won't let you down with theirs. I haven't seen a tantrum win a match yet. Pick your poison.

 

[memilanuk]

Just for the sake of discussion... anybody else had a scorer who felt it was their moral obligation to *challenge* a shot? In a team match, no less?

 

[clowdis]

Just for the sake of discussion... anybody else had a scorer who felt it was their moral obligation to *challenge* a shot? In a team match, no less?

A sure way to make it hard to find somebody that wants to shoot with you from then on. I have rarely won a challenge for score because the scorer in the pits is 1,000 yards closer to the target than I am. As Monte said before, the shooter has control of the firing position and you cannot crowd him or tell him how to manage his time. The scorer has safety responsibilities and can, in conjunction with the shooter, call for a mark. I've never seen a shooter just ignore a situation where the target wasn't pulled.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I see myself as scorer as primarily in service to the shooter. I have a brief discussion before the match about how the shooter wants things handled and I try to do things as the shooter prefers. An attentive scorer can learn a shooter's preferences fairly quickly.

 

[Highpower-FClass]

Scoring for Ben in one of my early matches he taught me the importance of watching the shooter when scoring, not the target. Prior to that I would watch the target through the spotting scope since that instinctively seemed logical (the score is marked on the target so make sure to watch the target).

I call for marks if the target does not go down, since that is what I appreciate the scorer doing when I am shooting.

I call the scores loud since as a shooter I dislike having to turn my head to hear the scorer's call or worse, have to ask the scorer to confirm a score because I could not hear the call.

 

[Canadian bushman]

Im thankfull for this thread. Its helpfull to understand what things should be considered and prioritized fulfilling my duties other than shooting.

Its hard, initially, to understand how severe a small mistake can become.

 

[got2hunt]

Great post. Couldn't agree more. Every time I've shot at Palo Alto in Donaldsonville, LA, Mr. Rick has made sure this topic is covered prior to the match. He always reminds the scorer of his or her duty. I think it is a great idea for this to be brought up prior to shooting at the match. Again, GREAT post!