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A message from Wyman on Coyote killing

butchlambert

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This email from Wyman was in response to the Project Coyote thing.









You know Butch, we have a lot of whack jobs out there who are as naïve as a five year old child. But I have been a student of coyote behavior for 60 years, engaged research on coyotes at the university level and as you know, hunted them professionally for over a decade. In fact, I still do a little hunting but it’s like quail hunters in that it’s about the ritual of hunting more so than the killing. As you know, I have maintained scientific records on all of my coyotes harvested in order to determine any physical or behavioral change that may have occurred during the six decades I’ve worked with these predators and my findings are interesting if not significant in the field of science.
I have railed against coyote hunting contests telling people that one day these contests are going to attract the attention of activists. Well, the day has come. Honestly, I am not in favor of any animal killing contests as it casts a dark shadow on the sport of traditional hunting. I guess I am a little old fashioned but to me hunting is between a person and his/her quarry, and if a kill is made, the animal should be treated with respect, even in death. Because of this, I find killing contests very distasteful.
So many use the excuse to support and engage in coyote killing contests as a way to “control” this heinous predator. In my decades of scientific research and citing other research endeavors, coyote are largely beneficial in their role in the ecosystem. Research by Dr. Dale Rollins at the Texas Tech Research Station near Roby, Texas has determined that coyotes are essential in maintaining healthy quail numbers by preying on skunks, armadillos and raccoons, three species that raid quail nests regularly. And with the increase in deer hunters using corn feeders to attract deer, raccoons, also ravenous consumers of corn, have increased in numbers far above the normal densities and carrying capacities in given regions.
For generations people have maligned the coyote as a blood thirsty killer, the same mindset that eventually drove the Texas wolf into extinction by the early 20th century. As for the wolf, they were killers of domestic livestock due to our elimination of their natural prey species, the buffalo, by the late 19th century. Unlike the coyote, wolves were true carnivores, requiring red meat to survive. Without question, a symbiotic relationship between livestock raisers and wolves was not possible. But the coyote is not a wolf, more so an omnivore as my own study published in the Journal of Range Management stated. Of course they will raid the chicken coup if given a chance and consume a few poodles and cats if the chance arises, but by and large, coyotes are not the devil in disguise that many people paint them to be.
Many might say that I am a wildlife activist and want all hunting stopped. I say the contrary as my notes over decades show I’ve harvested over 1,874 coyotes with a rifle alone, not counting steel traps and poison which total over 3000. But I study each animal to learn, if possible, subtle changes in their biology, and changes have indeed been recognized.
So I do take issue with the indiscriminate killing of any animal in the name of “contest” hunting for a couple of reasons. First it shows no respect for the creature and its role in our ecosystem, and two, no scientific knowledge is realized from such activities. In understanding the role of predators in our ecosystem opens an entire new level of appreciation for so many creatures once thought useless and dispensable. I believe ignorance is an affliction affecting too many people in the field today. Instead of respect for the animal it is just about killing, and I think that is not a healthy mindset and will feed ammo to the animal activists. We have to change the message and subsequently our image as outdoorsmen and women or the tradition of hunting will be facing an uphill battle sooner than later..
Now I’m getting off my pulpit and going to kill a grackle! They are invaders to Texas from South America and are serious predators to nesting dove!
Hugs to Charlotte my friend!
Wyman
 
Butch, as being around this ranching deal my whole life I agree with Wyman’s thoughts on the hunting/ killing contest thing. But as we all remember our younger days, I can also see the getting together of like like minded hunters and gun enthusiasts in these types of things. We shouldn’t give the anti- liberal crowd a foothold on anything to do with our hunting traditions or sport.
 
I agree with Wyman. These contests are just the thing that activists need to get their " message" across to the fools. Raccoons are a huge menace ,as no one traps them anymore. The pelts are worthless. They raid all of the quail and turkey nests, not to mention my sweet corn patch! The coyotes here in mid missouri are getting to be a nuisance to cattle, and need thinned down, but they definitely have their place.
 
This email from Wyman was in response to the Project Coyote thing.









You know Butch, we have a lot of whack jobs out there who are as naïve as a five year old child. But I have been a student of coyote behavior for 60 years, engaged research on coyotes at the university level and as you know, hunted them professionally for over a decade. In fact, I still do a little hunting but it’s like quail hunters in that it’s about the ritual of hunting more so than the killing. As you know, I have maintained scientific records on all of my coyotes harvested in order to determine any physical or behavioral change that may have occurred during the six decades I’ve worked with these predators and my findings are interesting if not significant in the field of science.
I have railed against coyote hunting contests telling people that one day these contests are going to attract the attention of activists. Well, the day has come. Honestly, I am not in favor of any animal killing contests as it casts a dark shadow on the sport of traditional hunting. I guess I am a little old fashioned but to me hunting is between a person and his/her quarry, and if a kill is made, the animal should be treated with respect, even in death. Because of this, I find killing contests very distasteful.
So many use the excuse to support and engage in coyote killing contests as a way to “control” this heinous predator. In my decades of scientific research and citing other research endeavors, coyote are largely beneficial in their role in the ecosystem. Research by Dr. Dale Rollins at the Texas Tech Research Station near Roby, Texas has determined that coyotes are essential in maintaining healthy quail numbers by preying on skunks, armadillos and raccoons, three species that raid quail nests regularly. And with the increase in deer hunters using corn feeders to attract deer, raccoons, also ravenous consumers of corn, have increased in numbers far above the normal densities and carrying capacities in given regions.
For generations people have maligned the coyote as a blood thirsty killer, the same mindset that eventually drove the Texas wolf into extinction by the early 20th century. As for the wolf, they were killers of domestic livestock due to our elimination of their natural prey species, the buffalo, by the late 19th century. Unlike the coyote, wolves were true carnivores, requiring red meat to survive. Without question, a symbiotic relationship between livestock raisers and wolves was not possible. But the coyote is not a wolf, more so an omnivore as my own study published in the Journal of Range Management stated. Of course they will raid the chicken coup if given a chance and consume a few poodles and cats if the chance arises, but by and large, coyotes are not the devil in disguise that many people paint them to be.
Many might say that I am a wildlife activist and want all hunting stopped. I say the contrary as my notes over decades show I’ve harvested over 1,874 coyotes with a rifle alone, not counting steel traps and poison which total over 3000. But I study each animal to learn, if possible, subtle changes in their biology, and changes have indeed been recognized.
So I do take issue with the indiscriminate killing of any animal in the name of “contest” hunting for a couple of reasons. First it shows no respect for the creature and its role in our ecosystem, and two, no scientific knowledge is realized from such activities. In understanding the role of predators in our ecosystem opens an entire new level of appreciation for so many creatures once thought useless and dispensable. I believe ignorance is an affliction affecting too many people in the field today. Instead of respect for the animal it is just about killing, and I think that is not a healthy mindset and will feed ammo to the animal activists. We have to change the message and subsequently our image as outdoorsmen and women or the tradition of hunting will be facing an uphill battle sooner than later..
Now I’m getting off my pulpit and going to kill a grackle! They are invaders to Texas from South America and are serious predators to nesting dove!
Hugs to Charlotte my friend!
Wyman
While i'm somewhat in agreement with your logic, animal rights groups will find a way even without controlled coyote hunts to favor their agenda. I'm okay with it , but am also resolved to the fact that when coyote hunting is outlawed ,I will then become an outlaw, a coyote harvester(LOL) till the end!
 
You won’t stop coyotes from expanding their territory or thriving, they are an amazing animal in their ability to adapt and do well. They are in places they weren’t just a decade or two ago, populations are gaining a foot hold in the north and more and more to the east and south.

I grew up on a ranch and the attitude was what you would expect. I hunted the creature hard in my twenties and thirties, hard enough my first wife had my bags packed on the porch one night when I came home when me and my cousin had a goal of of harvesting 100 coyotes in thirty days. We took a 159 btw. It was easy pickings though, a nearby commercial pig farm was tossing 10-20 pig carcasses a day into an open pit and the coyote population was out of control.

I’ve grown to have a tremendous amount of respect for the creature. Amazing animals in so many ways and everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject. I’ll leave it at that. I’m sure if your a dedicated coyote hunter you have your own opinion and I’m sure those opinions vary greatly.

Edit: just a little follow up on the pig farm coyote days. The first time we went into that place and went to the pit where the dead pigs were tossed daily we counted 58 coyotes leaving the pit as we drove up, all in a single file line. The population of coyotes was so out of balance that almost everyone of those coyotes had mange, bugs and were in very poor condition. Rolling in decomposing pig carcasses didn’t help. The owners were happy to have the help, pigs are open to disease and it can wipe out the profits of the entire operation if it happens. Reducing that population was the ethical thing to do, for sake of the farm and the coyotes. If you’ve ever seen a mange infested coyote that has three hairs left on its head and open sores it leaves an impression, not a life any animal would want.
 
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Mother nature will thin em out with mange if they get too thick. Seen it happen before in Mo. It takes all of them when she does it. Nobodys after them because of the fake fur. I hope the rich bitches fell good when they put on their fur coat. No animals had to die in the making of this coat. Doug
 
You won’t stop coyotes from expanding their territory or thriving, they are an amazing animal in their ability to adapt and do well. They are in places they weren’t just a decade or two ago, populations are gaining a foot hold in the north and more and more to the east and south.

I grew up on a ranch and the attitude was what you would expect. I hunted the creature hard in my twenties and thirties, hard enough my first wife had my bags packed on the porch one night when I came home when me and my cousin had a goal of of harvesting 100 coyotes in thirty days. We took a 159 btw. It was easy pickings though, a nearby commercial pig farm was tossing 10-20 pig carcasses a day into an open pit and the coyote population was out of control.

I’ve grown to have a tremendous amount of respect for the creature. Amazing animals in so many ways and everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the subject. I’ll leave it at that. I’m sure if your a dedicated coyote hunter you have your own opinion and I’m sure those opinions vary greatly.
You left I hope.
 
I don’t want my gun rights limited to our hunting tradition whatsoever. It took almost no time to eliminate buffalo on this continent, here for millions of years. No one here ever saw one “wild” bison outside the national parks, and neither did their parents.

We reduced bison from 60 million to 600. The bald eagle faced extinction, our own national animal. Hunters are nice enough guys, but try it without gun, Wyman. What if we all killed 1,600?

If my gun rights are tied to hunting, and hunters living in the sprawling suburbs think the wide open, like where I do live, is an unlimited all you can eat smorgasbord of wildlife put here for the second’s worth of fun of watching it blow up, what happens to my descendants’ gun rights when they have killed off everything?

You guys that think a bullet that doesn’t kill something is a wasted bullet might not like to hear it, but the only reason you get to shoot as many animals as you do, is because of restraint by a lot of the rest of us. How many animals do you think match shooters would kill, guys that order ten thousand bullets at a time.

In a way it’s worse than just guys shooting everything alive that we actively refrain from doing day in and day out, but those that relish in ridiculous body counts actually bring additional scrutiny to gun rights, which I certainly hope will persist longer than their ability to see the effects.
 
I have pretty much the same mind-set as Wyman when it comes to these "song dogs". I've hunted and trapped them primarily in my younger days, and coincidentally when their pelt was more valuable than they are now. I think that most folks who have pursued them with any serious effort, will come to respect them and appreciate them.

When I hear someone talking like every coyote should be killed by any means, I'm pretty sure that the guy probably hasn't killed very many of them. The man who I used to sell most of my pelts to, was not just a fur buyer, but an extremely successful coyote (and other fur) trapper. He trapped hundreds every year, and bought thousands. More than anyone, he knew what kind of work that entailed, and what they were worth. When talking to him, you could tell that he actually loved coyotes, and not just the money he made with them. He looked dimly at them being wasted, and killing them by cruel or sadistic methods was deplorable to him.

Back when I put a lot of effort into "harvesting" them, the pelts sold for around $30-$60 depending on quality, color, and how well I did at prepping them. The hourly pay of the jobs I worked back then was $5 or $6 bucks an hour. So if I sold a coyote for $40, that was about a days pay. Now it's hard to get $40 for a pelt, and a days pay is 200 bucks. Given the way I feel about wasting them, I'd sooner take pictures of them than kill them. Skinning, fleshing, and stretching coyote pelts, aint for a lazy guy, and selling the resulting pelt for 20 bucks will seem ridiculous to most folks - and a labor of love to others.

I'm not sayin that my way is the only way to feel about coyotes, and some folks probably feel that way about my ground squirrel killin sport. I do know that most of us, as we get older, become a little gentler when it comes to spilling blood. jd
 
I have pretty much the same mind-set as Wyman when it comes to these "song dogs". I've hunted and trapped them primarily in my younger days, and coincidentally when their pelt was more valuable than they are now. I think that most folks who have pursued them with any serious effort, will come to respect them and appreciate them.

When I hear someone talking like every coyote should be killed by any means, I'm pretty sure that the guy probably hasn't killed very many of them. The man who I used to sell most of my pelts to, was not just a fur buyer, but an extremely successful coyote (and other fur) trapper. He trapped hundreds every year, and bought thousands. More than anyone, he knew what kind of work that entailed, and what they were worth. When talking to him, you could tell that he actually loved coyotes, and not just the money he made with them. He looked dimly at them being wasted, and killing them by cruel or sadistic methods was deplorable to him.

Back when I put a lot of effort into "harvesting" them, the pelts sold for around $30-$60 depending on quality, color, and how well I did at prepping them. The hourly pay of the jobs I worked back then was $5 or $6 bucks an hour. So if I sold a coyote for $40, that was about a days pay. Now it's hard to get $40 for a pelt, and a days pay is 200 bucks. Given the way I feel about wasting them, I'd sooner take pictures of them than kill them. Skinning, fleshing, and stretching coyote pelts, aint for a lazy guy, and selling the resulting pelt for 20 bucks will seem ridiculous to most folks - and a labor of love to others.

I'm not sayin that my way is the only way to feel about coyotes, and some folks probably feel that way about my ground squirrel killin sport. I do know that most of us, as we get older, become a little gentler when it comes to spilling blood. jd
Having both Coyote hunted for fur and getting older, I agree on both thoughts.

As for coyote hunting 99.5% of people have no idea what goes into it and even if you tried to explain it to them they likely wouldn't get it. No amount of being an excellent shot will help someone be a good coyote hunter, it will only help them if the shot presents itself. I know lots of hunters that have no clue what goes into coyote hunting. There's very few coyote hunters that get high numbers in relation to hunters overall or even all coyote hunters.
 
As a land owner, the only coyotes getting whacked here are ones causing problems to my wife's livestock. Otherwise, they get left alone, pelts aren't worth the work these days.
The old ranchers that I know never worried about them bothering their cattle. We did have some in one of the city parks in Arlington, Tex that attacked some children. I wish I had a couple to thin out the army of stray cats that the old b--ch that lives in the property behind us feeds.
We like cats and have always had one or two, but they are in our house and not making a mess on anybody's possessions.
 
Excellent thread - thanks for posting. I especially liked the "respect for the animal part". No question, at least around here in the east, animal killing contests paint an unsavory picture of all hunters. In this "brave new world", perhaps it would be better if such contests are abandoned.

The older I get, the more I like the hunting experience rather than the kill aspect. While I am only a novice predator hunter, I am very experienced and avid varmint hunter.

Unless specifically requested by the farmer relative to a problem hog, I never shoot ground hogs under 100 yards with a centerfire rifle. I enjoy the strategy and tactics part of it. Before I became physically limited, I enjoyed stalking the most, roaming the fields. I also endeavor to stay within my limits to make humane shots.

From my limited experience of hunting coyotes, I have learned to respect their uncanny alertness. Foxes are easy - coyotes are a real challenge.
 
Wow, quite the thread. This got me lifetime banned on a competing site. Coyotes are neither inherently good or bad. If you call one in and miss you will never see it again. Our state fish and game say you have to kill 75% of the.population for 10 years to put a dent in the population. I have seen calves and lambs without a face. I kill everyone I can. My dogs do too.
 
I've got a funny coyote story that involves both calling and trapping, that happened maybe ten years ago -- and I've got pics!!

My wife and I took off with both old camper truck, and my Jeep Cherokee to use as a "runabout". Mid October, weather was beautiful, and we had four or five days to camp and call coyotes. We spent the morning driving about a hundred miles out into the des to an area where I had hunted and trapped before. Settled into this little spot at the end of a faint road, and set up camp.
100_4890 copy.JPG
Got up before light the next morning, and used the dry creek to sneak down into some country that was unscathed by our camp. I think it was on our second stand of the morning that a coyote arrived and stopped about a hundred yards out. I made a stupid miss with my first shot, and then a bragging running shot at prolly 150. 40 gr. V-Max with no exit and a really pretty medium female.
013 copy.JPG
We tried another couple of stands with no success, so headed back to camp to let the dog out of the camper and have some breakfast. This led to a little excitement.
100_4888 copy.JPG
That wire-haired dog that ya see there is my beloved Gunner, who has since headed up to the Rainbow Bridge to wait for my arrival. This particular morning however he was involved in a little drama, when he found a coyote trap directly under that table that you see behind him. :oops: It was a perfect front foot catch, and the trap was staked solid. Gunner wasn't very happy, but I managed to un hook him without getting bit, and things settled down for a little breakfast and skinning.
100_4877 copy.JPG
So a little later when a pick-up came down our little road, with a couple of trappers in it -- well this was what they saw. My wife was getting started on making a pelt out of what they presumed was their coyote. I've gotta admit that I'd have been pretty suspicious myself.

I had to explain that we'd killed the coyote by other means, and that they had at least been successful at trapping my dog. They were good guys, and believed our testimony, but one remarked that "maybe we're not very good trappers if it took almost a day to catch your dog".

It's stuff like this that makes good memories and life worth living. jd
 

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