A Max headaches

[Ksmirk]

I figured I'd just call it on the A Maxes, they wouldn't shoot in my other 243 so going to load up some more 107's. Funny my old 243 loads are pretty close to my new rifle with 2" shorter barrel but stuffing 49gr of Retumbo in the case really makes ya wonder

Haven't tried the 4350 YET... plan on picking some up this weekend and probably some Berger's for grins, the only reason I was shooting the 87gr bullets was to break in the barrel, pretty much from now on out I'll be shooting 107's and 115's IF they shoot well that is. I don't plan on pushing this rifle too hard, figure I'll stick around the 2950-3000 fps to get a little life out of the barrel and most of the reason I was using the Retumbo as it takes awhile before the barrel would get hot in my other rifle and didn't have too hard of time getting to 3K with good results and the SMK's. So far though and with less than 50 rounds downrange I'm thinking I'm going to be happy just wish I could have had better luck with the A Maxes. Later,

Kirk

 

[waldo1979]

Try a lighter A-max and as someone mentioned hard jammed. I've personally never gotten the A-max to work in an AR, but my friends have. I have had good successful with 50gr z-max w/benchmark (a faster powder for AR).

As far as I know, the A-max functions like a Berger VLD. Secant bullets require a lot of length tuning (ref: Competition Handloading -Zediker).

Also, try some different powders.

 

[Ksmirk]

Won't be shooting a lighter bullet, if I was going to shoot a light bullet I'd not have gone with a 7.5 twist this is a 243 is a bolt rifle and I was shooting the left over A Maxes from my Fat Rat project which didn't turn out well and has since been scrapped but all my 223 rifles just love the A Maxes or about any other bullet ya run into the case. Biggest thing was just wondering if I was the only one who had problems getting the A Maxes to shoot. Later,

Kirk

 

[Changeling]

Fella's have any of you run into a bullet you just can't get to shoot? I don't know what I'm doing wrong or if my rifles just don't like the bullets which I'm starting to wonder! I can't seem to get the A Maxes shoot in my 308 and just started working with them with my 243. Is there some crazy magical thing that I'm missing? I've loaded from the lands to jumping .040 gone thru different powder charges, tried different brands of primers and powders. This weekend breaking in my 243 barrel I had some 87r Hornady SP's that I thought I would use to break in the barrel and was nothing to get 1/2" groups... the A Maxes well hovered around 1.00 to 1.25, the SMK's well back to the half inch area???? I really want to shoot the A Max bullets but the way it's looking I'm going to be spinning my wheels.

Is there some trick that doesn't involve chicken feathers and chants to get these to shoot cause I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure these out. A little background, the barrel is a Bartlein 7.5 twist on a Savage 10 action bedded in a BC Medalist stock. It's funny as my 7mm loved the A Max bullets and little brothers 260 loves them as well any help or direction would be appreciated! Later,

Kirk

I'm little confused, in your first paragraph you talk about the 308 and 243, in the second you refer to a barrel with a 7.5 twist witch must be the 243, but you don't give any load information.
What gr Amax or you shooting in the 243 (I don't use or shoot Amax)?. That twist of 1 in 7.5 would be OK for the 105's and up but somewhat fast for light bullets.

What is the complete load information and barrel twist for each bullet you are shooting that won't shoot?

It's not real unusual for a rifle that shoots 1/2 inch groups to shoot 1 inch or so with bullets it doesn't care for.

 

[CaptainMal]

Reads like you get a lot of usage with A-Max bullets. They are not a hunting bullet so you must have numerous calibers of target rifles.

Bet also you like them because they are less expensive than many other types. That's good if they work for your target usage. If not, stop beating the dead horse and spend a couple cents more per bullet and try something else.

 

[dkhunt14]

Reads like you get a lot of usage with A-Max bullets. They are not a hunting bullet so you must have numerous calibers of target rifles.

Bet also you like them because they are less expensive than many other types. That's good if they work for your target usage. If not, stop beating the dead horse and spend a couple cents more per bullet and try something else.

I thought A-Max is a hunting bullet. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

Haven't tried the 4350 YET... plan on picking some up this weekend and probably some Berger's for grins, the only reason I was shooting the 87gr bullets was to break in the barrel, pretty much from now on out I'll be shooting 107's and 115's IF they shoot well that is. I don't plan on pushing this rifle too hard, figure I'll stick around the 2950-3000 fps to get a little life out of the barrel and most of the reason I was using the Retumbo as it takes awhile before the barrel would get hot in my other rifle and didn't have too hard of time getting to 3K with good results and the SMK's. So far though and with less than 50 rounds downrange I'm thinking I'm going to be happy just wish I could have had better luck with the A Maxes. Later,

Kirk[/QUOTE]I think Retumbo is too slow for a 243. I bet the bearing is longer on the Sierra and that builds more pressure which would help to burn the Retumbo. I just believe Retumbo is too slow for a 243 even with the heavy bullets. Matt

 

[Ksmirk]

CaptainMal first off does it make a difference what I shoot and how many rifles I have? sound like one of those liberals worried about how many guns and ammo I have and so far the A Maxes have been wonderful hunting bullets! granted a bit harsh on smaller deer with high velocities and to make things more interesting those SMK's are pretty fair as well... they all work good if you put them where they should go.

Changling, sorry for that sort of scatterbrained when I wrote that, in a nutshell seems I've had two rifles I could shoot the A Maxes with any accuracy.... my .224's and a 7mm but haven't had ANY luck with the 30's or .243's and a funny thing is I was shooting some 87gr just to get on paper and work on barrel break in and they were grouping rather nice! I actually thought I may spin them apart but then again I wasn't pushing them all that hard but rather surprised. I guess I'm hard headed and should have learned with my previous 243 that the A Maxes wouldn't shoot but hey trying to save a penny.

dkhunt14, yes that Retumbo is SLOW for the 243 but one of the things I like is that it takes several more rounds before the barrel gets hot over the other powders I've tried, I'm not trying to get crazy velocity just looking for around 2950-3000fps... 47.5gr was giving me 2922fps and the 49gr loads were only clocking 3015fps with the 105 A Maxes my other 243 with 49.1gr and the 107SMK I was getting 3050fps with 2" more barrel so you may be onto something with the bearing and pressure BUT 49gr of powder takes a mess of case space! I will be trying some different powders this round for sure as well as a couple different bullets and do my best to not linger since the 6mm's are not one of the nicest calibers for barrel life. Later,

Kirk

 

[dkhunt14]

dkhunt14, yes that Retumbo is SLOW for the 243 but one of the things I like is that it takes several more rounds before the barrel gets hot over the other powders I've tried, I'm not trying to get crazy velocity just looking for around 2950-3000fps... 47.5gr was giving me 2922fps and the 49gr loads were only clocking 3015fps with the 105 A Maxes my other 243 with 49.1gr and the 107SMK I was getting 3050fps with 2" more barrel so you may be onto something with the bearing and pressure BUT 49gr of powder takes a mess of case space! I will be trying some different powders this round for sure as well as a couple different bullets and do my best to not linger since the 6mm's are not one of the nicest calibers for barrel life. Later,

Kirk

Heat is an enemy to a barrel but it takes a bunch of shots over a short period to hurt the throat bad. It is not the only enemy though. Big loads of slow burning powder getting unburned kernels of powder pushed over the throat isn't easy on though throat either. It tends to wear the bottom away.

As far as accuracy goes if a powder doesn't burn clean, it is usually not as accurate. Also if it doesn't get completely burned by the time the bullet exits it is not good either for accuracy. I would try H4831 SC with that weight bullet. It should give clean burn, good load density and not be hard on the barrel. Matt

 

[rduckwor]

I could never get the 308 AMAX's to group well. However, the 6.5CM AMAX's shoot lights out for me. Melting tip? Doubtful in my experience.

RMD

 

[dkhunt14]

It's funny in that you never heard melting tip. Then they mention tips are melting and you hear it mentioned now a lot. I think it takes a lot of speed and distance. The funny thing is lead melts in bullets also. Before they blow up lead comes out the points. Matt

 

[RemingtonAI]

I use both the 178 and the 168 amax's in my .308 Remington 700. Barrel is the factory SPS Tactical with a 1:10 heavy contour and an 11 degree target crown. I decided to keep the factory barrel since it was so accurate. Anyways, I mostly use the 178 out to 600 yards. I magazine feed and load to 2.8150 so there is a lot of jump. They are going pretty slow out of my 16.5" barrel with 43 gr. Of Varget and CCI #200 primers but still manage regular groups under .5 moa and isn't unusual to get .25 and slightly over. the 175 SMK'S do shoot slightly smaller groups but when shooting at the 5" and 8" gongs at 600 yrds they all connect the same. I have not cronographed the load but I measure drop at 300 yrds and back calculate the MV with my ballistics program, and then verify the predicted drop at 600 yrds. The math works out to a T and says I'm only pushing the 178 ' s around 2320 fps. I know what everyone is thinking...but the math on the MV checks out and she does shoot well so hey. Jesse

 

[barefooter56]

Fella's have any of you run into a bullet you just can't get to shoot? I don't know what I'm doing wrong or if my rifles just don't like the bullets which I'm starting to wonder! I can't seem to get the A Maxes shoot in my 308 and just started working with them with my 243. Is there some crazy magical thing that I'm missing? I've loaded from the lands to jumping .040 gone thru different powder charges, tried different brands of primers and powders. This weekend breaking in my 243 barrel I had some 87r Hornady SP's that I thought I would use to break in the barrel and was nothing to get 1/2" groups... the A Maxes well hovered around 1.00 to 1.25, the SMK's well back to the half inch area???? I really want to shoot the A Max bullets but the way it's looking I'm going to be spinning my wheels.

Is there some trick that doesn't involve chicken feathers and chants to get these to shoot cause I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure these out. A little background, the barrel is a Bartlein 7.5 twist on a Savage 10 action bedded in a BC Medalist stock. It's funny as my 7mm loved the A Max bullets and little brothers 260 loves them as well any help or direction would be appreciated! Later,

Kirk

Ksmirk,
yep. one intangible is "bullet to barrel fit". I have a Winchester Mod 70 that will not shoot Nosler bullets, period. I thought it was the load or maybe the seating depth BUT after loading a SIERRA 168 MK, HORNADY 168 MTCH, NOSLER 168 MTCH and BERGER 168 HYBRID TARGET all with the same load and running them all on the lands and working back in .002 increments all the way back to magazine length (yes, it was tedious) the BERGER, SIERRA and HORNADY bullets all came into tune . The Nosler stayed a "shotgun pattern" all through the testing. Its rare but it can happen. Just like everything else in reloading that makes you go "HUH?".

 

[dunraven]

I'm late to the party, but i believe waldo1979 was onto something: changing bullet weight. I often see folks 'married' to a bullet and/or weight, while varying powders, primers, neck tension, etc. have had 3 rifles which finally responded to a simple change in bullet weight. most notable was a custom 6.5-284 sporter which was shooting average group size of 3/4 inch using 3 different 140 gr bullets(standard weight, right?) in desperation, tried a ladder using 130s. LARGEST 3-shot group: .224! have a 6XC tactical rig which shoots 115 dtacs much better than 105s.

 

[Ksmirk]

Well got out this weekend and rolled some loads with 107SMK's and RL22 cause well I had it handy all shot well but had one group jump out at me so at least I know it's not me. I picked up some Berger 105 VLD's and some H4350 to give a try as I've heard good things about this combination. 75 rounds down the tube and I'm thinking the rifle is going to shoot as long as the nut behind the trigger doesn't come loose lol

Thanks for the advice I rather appreciate it! Later,

Kirk

 

[284winner]

Fella's have any of you run into a bullet you just can't get to shoot? I don't know what I'm doing wrong or if my rifles just don't like the bullets which I'm starting to wonder! I can't seem to get the A Maxes shoot in my 308 and just started working with them with my 243. Is there some crazy magical thing that I'm missing? I've loaded from the lands to jumping .040 gone thru different powder charges, tried different brands of primers and powders. This weekend breaking in my 243 barrel I had some 87r Hornady SP's that I thought I would use to break in the barrel and was nothing to get 1/2" groups... the A Maxes well hovered around 1.00 to 1.25, the SMK's well back to the half inch area???? I really want to shoot the A Max bullets but the way it's looking I'm going to be spinning my wheels.

Is there some trick that doesn't involve chicken feathers and chants to get these to shoot cause I'm pulling my hair out trying to figure these out. A little background, the barrel is a Bartlein 7.5 twist on a Savage 10 action bedded in a BC Medalist stock. It's funny as my 7mm loved the A Max bullets and little brothers 260 loves them as well any help or direction would be appreciated! Later,

Kirk

Ill say this. If your 243 isnt at least a 9 twist or faster, forget the 105 amax. I dont mean a factory rem or sav twist cause they are 9.25. I mean a 9 twist or faster. I cannot get 105s to shoot out of anything slower than 9.

 

[Ksmirk]

In guessing my 7.5 twist should be plenty to spin them up I built the rifle so I could shoot up to the 115's if I wanted, hopefully it's a slow week and I can roll up a few to shoot next time out. Sure wish the A Max would shoot as it would save a few pennies but hey seems all my hobbies get into my pockets deeper than I wish lol Later,

Kirk

 

[amlevin]

I had a bit of a slow start with the A-max's. Didn't seem to be able to get a load that was just right. Then one day it dawned on me. I had just read the product information from Hornady that stated this bullet has a secant ogive ------- just like the VLD's from Berger and others.

Read the suggestion posted on Berger's website and treat them like VLD's. I now shoot bugholes with them at 100 yards from my .223 and .308 and see boringly frequent sub .20 MOA groups at 300 yards.

All my seating depths are AT LEAST .040" off the lands with some as much as .080". Pay attention to case prep then follow the suggestions for finding a favorable seating depth, after of course you perform an OCW/Ladder test to find the proper charge weight. You will have to 'think outside the box' if you want them to perform but perform they will, especially at long ranges (especially now with the "heat shield" tip).