A funny story about barrel runout.

[Tucker65]

I had a barrel from a well known barrel mfg. that was a 28' finish blank. I needed a 24" finish length so I was just going to chop off 4" and use this barrel instead of waiting for a new barrel. I chucked it up in the lathe and when I parted it off I was shocked to see how far off the hole was in the blank. Called the mfg. and he didn't think it was possible for it to be as far out as I was I was telling him it was. I chambered it anyway and that barrel shot bug holes.

New video · Tuesday, Apr 30, 2024

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[SKWERLZ]

I remember the first barrel I did individually indicating each end and seeing the wobble and being worried.

 

[WayneShaw]

There was a fellow from Maryland that made barrels for a time years ago. When you dialed it in and looked down the bore they looked like a corkscrew. But they shot great and won many score matches.

 

[Steve Donlon]

Maybe a curved barrel in the abstract acts like gain twist

 

[LVLAaron]

You can actually straighten barrels that are that far out. You might run out of scope adjustment with that much run-out.

About 8 months ago a buddy came by and had gotten a call for a last minute muzzle loader mule deer hunt in Colorado on private land he was leaving in 3 days. The story goes back 20+ years, when 12 of us ordered Encore muzzle loaders at the same time. He had shot his 3 times with pyrodex and after having to clean with hot water, exclaimed that he'd never shoot a muzzle loader again. We live in Texas, so here they are no advantage as you'd have to use them during regular rifle season. We never applied for muzzle loader tags, so they sat unused, he tried to give his away several times.
So he'd asked if I had powder and bullets and I did but I haven't had mine out in 20 years either. He takes them out and proceeds to sight in the factory iron sights (no scopes in Colorado). Sight bottomed out and all the way to the left and still shooting 8" high and 6" right at 100 yards. He tries mine and it's actually worse. I told him he was cockeyed and had to be him. Another buddies was still in box and he gets it and at least gets within 4" and calls it good. They actually killed 2 nice mule deer.
When they returned from hunt, I'd read where the QLA (quick load adapter) was sometimes a problem and put barrel in lathe and dialed in the muzzle. With muzzle indicated in, the chamber end had 0.240" of run-out. I cut the QLA off and re-crowned but didn't change the sight alignment. Put barrel back in lathe between centers and every 4", found high spot and wrote the run-out on barrel. Made a delrin adapter for hydraulic press and put barrel on V-blocks and proceeded to straighten both barrels. Got sights back in center of adjustment. I can only assume every barrel we got in that order was somehow fouled up.
I recalled that when I got mine, I originally mounted a 4-12x scope, ran out of windage and elevation. Put on a 3-9x, same thing. Finally tried a 2-7 and it had enough adjustment. Just didn't make the connection at the time.

I actually tried the log first and it actually helped but afraid it would distort the relatively thin barrels.

That's why I don't let people watch me work on their stuff.

 

[J_idaho]

lol that’s awesome

 

[PWS]

I doubt I’ve fitted more than 200 total but I’ll bet a dollar to a doughnut that different loads will print along a stripe oriented in line with the bulk of the curve of a barrel.

First noticed it with a .338 Win Mag with I missed 12:00 and ended with the curve clocked roughly 1:30. You could reliably ballpark velocities depending upon where the group printed on a line from 7:30 to 1:30.

 

[1lessdog]

I still remember those gorilla handed trap shooters bending the 870 barrels over bags of shot out in the parking lot, trying to get a curved barrel to compensate for the rising targets.

Years ago, when I was going to Murray State College in Oklahoma for Gunsmithing. I had a guy bring in a Md 12 Trap md and wanted me to put a lighter sping in the trigger as he said trigger pull was to much. I said ok, will have it done in a day or two. The next day he came in to pick it up. I was in a different classroom and he thought it was done as it was setting on my bench. A few days later he came in and said it was the first time in his life that he shot a perfect 100/100. He gave me 50.00 and was so happy. I didn't have the heart to tell him I never did a thing to his shotgun. Shooters are a funny breed.

 

[rockhound78]

When I was in my early 20's, young and didn't know any better, I did the shotgun barrel in a vise thing. Had a nice pronounced "dogleg" to it. Went from shooting on at 30 yds or so, to on at 70 ish yards. Lots of crows fell to that bent barrel single shot. Wish I had kept it.

 

[KMart]

Years ago, when I was going to Murray State College in Oklahoma for Gunsmithing. I had a guy bring in a Md 12 Trap md and wanted me to put a lighter sping in the trigger as he said trigger pull was to much. I said ok, will have it done in a day or two. The next day he came in to pick it up. I was in a different classroom and he thought it was done as it was setting on my bench. A few days later he came in and said it was the first time in his life that he shot a perfect 100/100. He gave me 50.00 and was so happy. I didn't have the heart to tell him I never did a thing to his shotgun. Shooters are a funny breed.

That area between the ears has determined the success or failure of a lot of shooters.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Selling barrels to people who think they can determine "good" or "bad" looking at it with their eyes, or even a boresocope, (using Internet posts as a guide of course), often leads to assertions wholly inaccurate.

I figure it's about like using TikTok posts by models as a guide to find a girlfriend.

 

[AlNyhus]

There was a fellow from Maryland that made barrels for a time years ago. When you dialed it in and looked down the bore they looked like a corkscrew. But they shot great and won many score matches.

Wayne, I used quite a few of Craig's barrels...still have a couple. One of them was the first barrel Stan 'clocked' at 12:00 due to how far off the bore was at the finished muzzle length. I remenber when he called me as said "What do you want me to do with this thing I've got in the lathe?!" It shot like the Hammers Of Hell...won my first Two Gun with it a few weeks later.

I recently got a similar call from Dave Tooley. We both got a good chuckle out of it.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[dthomas]

So do all these crooked barrels have paronies disease?

 

[wasskeet]

I still remember those gorilla handed trap shooters bending the 870 barrels over bags of shot out in the parking lot, trying to get a curved barrel to compensate for the rising targets.

For Jack King, I think it was the rear bumper of a 60's Chevrolet LOL!

 

[xr650rRider]

@Alex Wheeler story does contradict what I had assumed. I assumed that all the crooked barrels went to people who were NOT well known smiths. I figured that Kreiger/Bartlein knowing the barrel was headed to Alex would say "don't ship him that crooked one, he'll send it back!". The straightest barrel I ever had in my lathe was a .22 CF Benchmark that a PRS competitor had gotten from a sponsorship. When the chamber in was dialed in, the muzzle had maybe .003" runout. I can't say it ever shot better than anything else as he put it into a rifle that the bedding looked like it had been done with a hatchet. If you tightened both action screws, the bolt could barely move it was so distorted. The barrel is just one part of the equation.

 

[msalm]

Years ago in my military life, we had a M2HB 50 cal come in with the fault of ‘bent barrel’. I didn’t think it was possible to bend such a hefty piece of steel so I rolled it on the table and it didn’t wobble a bit….straight as can be. I thought WTH, nothing wrong with this bbl. Lifted the breech end up to my eye and you couldn’t even see the muzzle hole through the bore there was such a curve in the bore. We did replace that one as that barrel was never going to shoot to the POI…. In the middle of the bore there runout had to be almost 1/2”!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

@Alex Wheeler story does contradict what I had assumed. I assumed that all the crooked barrels went to people who were NOT well known smiths. I figured that Kreiger/Bartlein knowing the barrel was headed to Alex would say "don't ship him that crooked one, he'll send it back!". The straightest barrel I ever had in my lathe was a .22 CF Benchmark that a PRS competitor had gotten from a sponsorship. When the chamber in was dialed in, the muzzle had maybe .003" runout. I can't say it ever shot better than anything else as he put it into a rifle that the bedding looked like it had been done with a hatchet. If you tightened both action screws, the bolt could barely move it was so distorted. The barrel is just one part of the equation.

Well, it did come from a customer. However your assumption is dead wrong, lol. Sometimes I feel like I get all the problem actions. Man I have found a lot of messed up stuff. Sometimes I fell like they are messing with me! Barrels in general from the top guys are mostly all pretty good. I see no difference between barrels I order and ones that come from customers or retailers.

 

[xr650rRider]

That might be the bad part of posting the story with a successful outcome............they might send you all the crooked ones now. May have to start a new LLC "Crooked barrel precision"

 

[xr650rRider]

I do have to clarify that the muzzleloader barrels I previously mentioned, all the high spots were in a line, so the barrels were clearly bent not an internal bore helix. They bent back straight a lot easier than I would have imagined. Not a lot of force required to bend 416SS but they are relatively thin for a .50 calber barrel.

 

[kevin nevius]

This thread made me smile today, thanks for starting it!

Having installed hundreds of barrels over 30 years of competitive shooting (for myself and others), I have had the chance to evaluate a lot of blanks - both smallbore and rimfire, and I absolutely concur with the OP. Not saying it has to somehow be a flawed blank to shoot well, but I have found that there is absolutely no way to gauge a blanks performance except for actually shooting it.

On VERY rare occasion you will find something like taper issues (which can't be worked around IMHO), but I have slugged and fitted some blanks that I thought had no chance - only to find the same results as the OP.

I have also had rifles with a pedigree in the shop that after inspection you wonder just how anyone won anything with them (be it the blank imperfections or gunsmithing / wear). I am convinced there is just a little bit of magic involved! LOL.

Great thread though, wishing all a great 2025 shooting season!

kev