a couple 20 vartarg?
- Thread starter MildBill
- Start date
Got out some of the remaining stash of new 221 FB to check primer pocket depth, and fully 12% were shallow to the extent that when the cutter of my Whitetail Engineering uniformer touched bottom of the existing pocket, there was .010"-.020" gap between the uniformer's stop face & the casehead. Don't know about the rest of you guys, but I'm slightly more than somewhat uncomfortable in having to thin the case web by .020" just to get a primer seated flush.
If they're not already, R-P needs to be made aware of this situation. Will try to find a contact person to discuss this with.
If they're not already, R-P needs to be made aware of this situation. Will try to find a contact person to discuss this with.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
flatlander: I load and shoot over 20 CF varmint rifles, handload for 'em all. With about 600 dedicated cases for each rifle, I uniform EVERY case and have a small ashtray full of primer pocket shavings from uniforming that gets dumped into my scrap brass bucket every year.
Some of these cases have been loaded over ten times, being uniformed every time. In the 44 years I've been handloading, I've NEVER had a case failure due to a too thin of a primer pocket case web. You'll never remove enough brass to fret about that. I shoot alot of varmints here, and would have had trouble by now if this was an issue.
Uniform those primer pockets with confidence.....you sure don't want primers sticking up above the case head.
Some of these cases have been loaded over ten times, being uniformed every time. In the 44 years I've been handloading, I've NEVER had a case failure due to a too thin of a primer pocket case web. You'll never remove enough brass to fret about that. I shoot alot of varmints here, and would have had trouble by now if this was an issue.
Uniform those primer pockets with confidence.....you sure don't want primers sticking up above the case head.
flatlander, you should also consider using a different uniformer that is made for domestic brass. If I'm not mistaken, the Whitetail is made for Lapua brass which is manufactured with deeper pockets, so a bit deeper tool is required to uniform them. I have 2 Whitetails & a Sinclair. I use the Sinclair on domestic brass with good results. I do agree with everybody that Remington needs to be made aware that some of their pockets are so shallow that primers protrude above the case head, a potential accident waiting to happen, and therefore a liability to Remington.
Forgot to mention that the very best 20VT brass I've seen is made by Adam Bentley. He reformes LC 223 brass to 20VT, including weight match, re-anneal, trim, turn neck & uniform primer pocket - all for about $0.70/case. This brass is tough as nails in addition to being like BR prepped, quite a bargain IMO.
You can also expand 17FB brass up to 20 cal & fireform. I did that originally & was pleased with it until I got some of Adam's brass.
You can also expand 17FB brass up to 20 cal & fireform. I did that originally & was pleased with it until I got some of Adam's brass.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
Good advice from SmokinJoe....I'll add another "+!" for Adam's brass.....VERY well done and of excellent quality.
On the 17FB brass for the 20VT; I've never used it, but I've heard here and elsewhere that it's best to neck down 221FB brass to 20VT, as many have experienced split necks when necking up R-P 17FB brass. I've never had an issue using R-P 221FB brass for my Vartarg, but thought I'd mention the above.
Also, I'm using a Forester primer pocket uniformer, works perfectly on domestic brass. Personally I see no need whatever to uniform Lapua primer pockets.....they're about as perfect as you'll ever see right out of the box. Ditto for their drilled flash holes....no need to unform, as they're drilled vs. punched like our domestic stuff. If R-P and WW would step up to the plate, they too COULD produce superior quality brass like Norma and Lapua. Guess we can wish, right?
On the 17FB brass for the 20VT; I've never used it, but I've heard here and elsewhere that it's best to neck down 221FB brass to 20VT, as many have experienced split necks when necking up R-P 17FB brass. I've never had an issue using R-P 221FB brass for my Vartarg, but thought I'd mention the above.
Also, I'm using a Forester primer pocket uniformer, works perfectly on domestic brass. Personally I see no need whatever to uniform Lapua primer pockets.....they're about as perfect as you'll ever see right out of the box. Ditto for their drilled flash holes....no need to unform, as they're drilled vs. punched like our domestic stuff. If R-P and WW would step up to the plate, they too COULD produce superior quality brass like Norma and Lapua. Guess we can wish, right?
I don't remember losing many cases to split necks when I expanded from 17 to 20 cal, but I did re-anneal after expanding before fireforming. I was just throwing that out as an option since I think I saw that 221FB brass was NA, 17FB may be the same right now.
Rick, I started handloading CF rifle ammo in 1968, so we've been at it about the same number of years. But I've never seen factory brass with this much of a problem where depth of primer pockets are concerned. I do have Sinclair uniformers, but they're up in the shop (I chuck 'em in the 3-jaw on Dad's old Atlas lathe), whereas the Whitetail uniformer is kept on the loading bench in the basement.
I'm primarily a NRA HP shooter - across the course, and MR & LR prone - so usually have anywhere from several thousand cases to several hundred for each rifle, including 223, 6 RAT, 6BR, 6 Dasher, 6 & 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5x55AI, 284 Win, and 308. I use the Sinclair uniformers & VLD-type chamfering tools on the Atlas for all this stuff, every time it's fired (unless it gets trimmed in a Giraud trimmer, which takes care of chamfering the case mouth). Most of the time, the Sinclair uniformers barely scrape the carbon residue out of the primer pockets on Lapua brass; I get the same results with the old WT uniformer. Would have to measure them to see if the WT is made to cut a deeper pocket, but it doesn't seem to be any different than the Sinclair, based on the results I get with them.
Whatever - like someone else mentioned, R-P needs to know about these shallow pockets. Soon as I finish a job in the field, and can be in the house during business hours, I'll give 'em a call.
I'm primarily a NRA HP shooter - across the course, and MR & LR prone - so usually have anywhere from several thousand cases to several hundred for each rifle, including 223, 6 RAT, 6BR, 6 Dasher, 6 & 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5x55AI, 284 Win, and 308. I use the Sinclair uniformers & VLD-type chamfering tools on the Atlas for all this stuff, every time it's fired (unless it gets trimmed in a Giraud trimmer, which takes care of chamfering the case mouth). Most of the time, the Sinclair uniformers barely scrape the carbon residue out of the primer pockets on Lapua brass; I get the same results with the old WT uniformer. Would have to measure them to see if the WT is made to cut a deeper pocket, but it doesn't seem to be any different than the Sinclair, based on the results I get with them.
Whatever - like someone else mentioned, R-P needs to know about these shallow pockets. Soon as I finish a job in the field, and can be in the house during business hours, I'll give 'em a call.
Rick in Oregon
Gold $$ Contributor
flatlander: Gotta agree with you; both R-P and WW need to take a look at their tooling or process, as virtually every case has too shallow primer pockets. I suppose it's good for the handloading tooling suppliers, but this is NOT the way to supply new virgin brass to handloaders.
I see forum threads from newbies having trouble seating primers.....wonder how many are mashing them with their compound leverage reloading presses to try to get them flush?
How is it that we here in America cannot make brass cartridge cases of equal quality to the Europeans? I find this quite a conundrum. As many of us as possible need to make wake-up calls to both R-P and WW and voice our concerns, especially some of us old dogs who have been at this game for a while.
Remember that "squeaky wheel" thingie........
I see forum threads from newbies having trouble seating primers.....wonder how many are mashing them with their compound leverage reloading presses to try to get them flush?
How is it that we here in America cannot make brass cartridge cases of equal quality to the Europeans? I find this quite a conundrum. As many of us as possible need to make wake-up calls to both R-P and WW and voice our concerns, especially some of us old dogs who have been at this game for a while.
Remember that "squeaky wheel" thingie........
I got the opportunity to test AA2200 in my 26" Bartlein 20 VT last evening - accuracy results were very good, and velocity was up around 3700fps with Hornady 32 VMax. I used Fed 205GM primers; next step will be to try WSR, CCI 450, and Wolf SRMs.
I bought an 8lb jug of AA2200 to try in my 6.8 SPC AR carbine - if it works as well there as it appears to fit the 20 VT application, I may need to order another jug of it!
I bought an 8lb jug of AA2200 to try in my 6.8 SPC AR carbine - if it works as well there as it appears to fit the 20 VT application, I may need to order another jug of it!
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.