8mm mauser reload hangfires

[Daddydavex2]

Reloaded my first batch of 8mm mauser. I used the same powder i use for my .223. Its wc846 i think and the same primers i use for my .308........had about 10 hangfires out of about 30 rounds.....click...bang! Not good. What is wrong? Fairly new to reloading....mostly for my AR. Not one hangfire in about 400 rounds. Have done about 200 for my .308. Not one hangfire. Using the same powder I use for my Ar and the same primers i use for my .308. Not sure what is causing the hangs. Please help. Thanks.

 

[queen_stick]

The only time that I've ever had that problem, was because I had a very small amount of case lube inside the necks. When the powder was dropped into the case, it simply brushed against the neck (which had a slight amount of lube on it)... that was enough to clump up the powder in the case, which created hang-fires and mis-fires. Like you said... not good! (I only determined this by pulling some of the bullets I had loaded that day... the powder was clumped to the point I couldn't get it out of the case). I haven't made that mistake since...

Edit: The problem I described above is highly dependent on the type of lube you use... not all case lubes will cause a reaction with your powder. However, it's still a VERY good idea to make sure it's not in the case at all.

 

[Daddydavex2]

Thanks for the info....like i said, pretty new at this. having hardly any issues at all with my .223 stuff. not really had to lube the cases too much with them. But after getting 2 8mm cases stuck and ruining a sizing die, i lube every one now. Using the HotShot spray lube just because it was recommended. Pretty easy to get too much in the neck. I will pull the rest of them apart and look. Thanks again.

 

[2506]

Hornady One Shot lube will not harm your primers. Your hang fire problems are probably because you are using a ball powder and regular primers. You need to use mag primers with ball powders. Your load density is most likely too low in the 8mm case with your powder. Ball powders are harder to light and need high density volume to keep the powder close to the primer. Use mag primers. If you are a new reloader you should be very careful about using data powder like WC846. You need to get some powder that is made for your calibers and have data from the maker on how much to load. You can get into trouble diving off into the wild with unknown powders without data that has been tested real quickly. Fingers and hands and things like that DON'T GROW BACK. Get you a good loading manual like the Sierra or Hornady and follow the rules. The rules are there for your safety. Good luck and be safe.

 

[jsn]

You may have already found the answer to your 8mm problem but I'm curious. Is the rifle an old Mauser, and if so, have you successfully fired anything in it before reloading? What did the primers and brass look like in the successfully fired reloads? Did the necks seal off OK? Primers look like the hangfires or flattened or???

WC846--I see a web site that says to use BLC-2 or W748 load data, is this what you did?

 

[jonbearman]

What is wc846 equal too? I assume it is blc-2. Let me know by pm and I will help you. How many grains did you use and what weight bullet and exactly what primer did you use? Were the flash holes full of walnut hull from tumbling?

 

[Daddydavex2]

the wc846 powder has been good in my .308. it has been outstanding, in my opinion, in my .223. But, have been using same primers, just a normal large rifle primer. It was the first batch, im sure changes are coming soon.
Thanks for all the info. I used 3.1cc dipper on all. I know its not exact but its what i have. It has been very adequate for the smaller caliber.
Needing to use magnum primers makes sense due to the increased size of this casing compared to .308. The regular primers have been very good for it.
It is an old mauser...which fires surplus ammo just fine. I used brand new brass, so no need to tumble. I used the load data for blc-2. It was the closest i could find.
Like i said, new at this. But this is the first time i have heard anyone say that the ball powder im using is not right. Works great in my Ar. Should i be using different powder for the 8mm?
Thanks again.

 

[shortgrass]

If it's a surplus military Mauser, I'd check firing pin protrusion and check the headspace, along with some of the other things mentioned.

 

[2506]

What you need to understand is that just because a powder works for one RIFLE caliber does not mean it is the proper burning rate for other calibers. Powders have different burning rates and develop different pressures. If the powder you are using does have the same burning rate as BLC2 then it is OK for the 8mm Mauser with 150 to 170 gr bullet weights. It is a ball powder and thus needs a mag primer to light it properly. All military ammo that is loaded with ball powders have mag strength primers. As I said, ball powders are harder to light than stick powder and colder weather magnifies the problem. Get you some Large Rifle Mag primers and your hang fires will most likely go away. With your 223 and 308 if you go to using mag primers you will need to back off the powder charge and work back up to where you were to see if the pressure is OK. Mag primers sometimes raise the pressure more than some standard primers. I would add again that you need to get yourself a good reloading manual and read it a couple of times to get a good grasp on the hows and whys of reloading.

I did a little leg work on your powder dipper. The 3.1cc dipper is supposed to dip 49 grs BLC2 powder. You never stated what bullet weight you are using. The Hodgdon manual states that starting load for 150 gr bullets with BLC2 is 50.0 grs and max is 55.0 grs. For 170 gr bullets start load is 48.8 grs and max is 53.5 BLC2. BLC2 is not listed in my Hodgdon manual with heaver bullets. So with 150 gr bullets you are under the starting load and with 170 gr bullets you are .2 grs over the starting load. You need to up the powder charge a little for both bullet weights but you need to know exactly how much powder you are using. The dippers in my experience are just in the ball park and not all that precise. Each dip can be off a grain or more one why or the other. About 35 years ago I started off using the Lee hammer type loader and the dippers but it did not take me long to find that I needed a REAL loading press and a scale. Once I started weighing those carefully dipped and scraped off dippers and saw the variation in the weights it scared me to death. Just passing on information from a lot of years of loading trying to keep you safe.

 

[queen_stick]

DaddyDave,

I edited my first post...

The problem I described above is highly dependent on the type of lube you use... not all case lubes will cause a reaction with your powder. However, it's still a VERY good idea to make sure it's not in the case at all.

Also, make sure you check over everything that other guys have suggested. There are a number of potential issues that can be the root cause of your problem. Since you've clarified that you're using One Shot case lube, then case lube inside the neck is probably not the cause.

Walt

 

[wapiti25]

Check your bolt, clean grease out, weak firing pin spring. Is this a Mauser? I have used IMR 4064 and CCI 200's under the 150 Hornady SP's to kill several deer, no problems.

 

[wapiti25]

Buy a powder scale.

 

[jsn]

Several things:

2506's last post is pretty much the direction I would have gone to next. My Lee dipper info says 3.1cc is 48 grains. I will load some ammo by volume, but usually not rifle, and nothing without confirming what the cc's of each powder are in reality. That means a scale to double check the volume.

I'm not convinced anything is wrong with using BLC-2 in an 8mm Mauser per se, but the load must be correct for the bullet. Some reloading books specify magnum primer for all ball powders, others do not.

Your primer seating depth may be an issue since the rifle fires mil-surp ammo fine. You might look at that too.