87gr V-max better than 70grNBT

[vegeta]

I am getting geared up for this season of prairie dog hunting in Wyoming and am looking at possibly trying a new load.

I currently shoot 70gr Nosler ballistic tips in my 6mmBr. I am unable to make consistent hits at 350 yards or longer.

Assuming everything else I am doing is OK, I know BIG assumption but humor me please ), would I see any difference moving up to the 87gr V-max?

I ask because it appears that going to a higher BC bullet is the way to improve long range accuracy.

Any advice appreciated.

Bobby

 

[CPorter]

Whether or not the 87gr Vmax will do you any good depends on what twist rate you have. Mine's a 12 twist and won't properly stabilize them. The gal I shoot with has a 10 twist that likes them.

I'm using the 70 gr ballistic tips at 3360 fps for 2.5" clays at 400 yards. Unless the wind is switching from 11 to 1 or 5 to 7 o'clock I can usually hit 80% or more. In the head and tail wind mentioned the bullet can move ~22" at our normal 25 mph. Reading the wind takes lots of practice.

 

[vegeta]

CPorter:

My barrel is 1 in 10 twist so stabilization should not be a problem.

I can hit clays at 300 yards essentially 100% of the time but this is in the calmer conditions we have in Missouri. I have not tried any further than that.


Gunamonth:

From what you are saying I should have better luck with the 87gr V-max vs the 70gr NBT?

What has always confused me is that on paper any of the bullets should work as long as you know the conditions. That is you just have to adjust for more windage or drop based on the BC and conditions.

However, I do not see anyone advocating this. I have speculated that the higher BC bullets have less wind drift and thus are less affected by the changing conditions encountered to the target. Hence less variability that results in smaller group size. Am I on the right track or do I need to go back to shooting 101?

Bobby

 

[vegeta]

Gunamonth,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I am not good at reading conditions yet but I am learning more every year I go out.

I was wondering if the difference in BC is enough to see a real world performance difference. The 70 gr BC is 0.310 and the 87 gr BC is 0.400,published values).

I am not expecting a spectacular difference. I just want enough to know that it is working. I guess the real test would be just trying it out.

Thanks again for all the help.

Bobby

 

[CPorter]

Shooting heavier bullets allows you to be off more in your judgement of the wind without necessarily missing the target but the effect isn't that dramatic.

At 500 yards the 70gr NBT starting at 3360 fps in a 10 mph crosswind has ~26" of drift. The 87gr VMax at 2900 fps has ~23.4" of drift. That means for every 1 mph you are off on the estimate the 70gr NBT drifts ~2.6" and the 87gr Vmax ~2.34". More than enough to miss a ground hog or prarie dog

 

[vegeta]

Cporter,

That is exactly what I am asking about! When you calculate the wind drift the effect on paper is minimal. According to your figures changing to the 87 V-max would only reduce windage by less than 3 inches at 500 yards so even the slightest error in reading the conditions will cause a miss.

So the question is why use the 87 gr V-max over the 70 gr NBT when the effect is so small? I don't see how it would make any practical difference.

Or am I missing something here?

Bobby

 

[CPorter]

At 500 yards or less it's is a toss up as to whether is worth it or not. You do get a couple of inches that may or may not help out. Out past 500 yards the heavier bullets retain their velocity better and the difference is a bit more pronounced. If you can read the wind,or have wind speed indicators) then it makes your error smaller. If you can't read the wind then the lighter bullet is probably better because there is more chance you might see the impact through the scope.

 

[vegeta]

CPorter,

Thanks for the thoughts. So far I can't read the wind well so I guess I will stick with the 70 grain bullets.

What irks me at this time is how random the misses appear at 350 or beyond. The drift and even the elevation of the impact appears to change on each shot but not in a consistent fashion. It must be that I am so inept at reading conditions that I never know what I will get as an end result.

Bobby

 

[patchhound]

hey vegeta, I think the best bet would be to try the 87 v-max over a starting laod of 30.5 H4895 and work it up to about 31.8grs or so and compare that to the 70`s in the wind @300+yrds, you`ll see a difference... If your gonna travel to Wyoning don`t count on too many not so windy days. I`m just learning to dope wind too and the 87`s do good for me to about 500yrds on a not so calmish day for PD`s. It`s worth tryin, save the 70`s for the short range stuff

patchhound.

 

[alanw]

One other small consideration is that if you are shooting a hundred shots a day or more, and don't have a brake on your rifle, there is some difference in the recoil between the 70's and the 87's. It may not affect your shooting, but it might affect your fun quotient a smidge. Having said that, I have a 12 twist on my 6 BR and so use the 70 NBT's for South Dakota PD's, but if it were a 10 twist, I would use the 87's. If someone made 150 gr .243 bullets and 2 twist barrels, that's the way I would go. I have measured 40-mile plus wind gusts while "trying" to shoot PD's.
Have fun!
Alan

 

[MarkS]

A friend of mine used the 87 Vmax to fireform cases in a 6BRX,6BR imp shooting BR loads), for 1000 yd benchrest. He could hit clays all day long at 1000 yds. I shoot them in my 6BRX at 3250 f/s. I have killed groundhogs past 500 yds.

Mark

 

[CPorter]

I know what you mean about the misses seeming random. There is a lot going on. At the range I shoot at the wind is usually a head wind that varies between 11 and 1 o'clock at 15 mph and gusting to 25 mph. In those conditions it's not unusual to have the bullet move 22" left to right and 4" up and down just due to the wind. It's a wonder anyone can hit the clays at all.

Have you tried this webpage's shooting demo for practice?
http://www.shooterready.com/lrs.html

 

[chino1969]

I was shooting 70 grn. Nosler Balistic Tips in my .243 A.I. with a 1-10" twist reasonably well. I switched to the 87 grn. Hornady V-Maxes and the accuracy difference was enough to make me switch permanently. I'm pushing them at approx. 3500+ ft/s., and will chrono them later.
Chino69

 

[vegeta]

Thanks for all the replies.

I have ordered 1500 87 gr V-max bullets to try out this year.

Wow, I wish I could get 3500 fps! I am hoping for 3050 fps from the 6mmBR case.

Bobby

 

[Stoner25mkiv]

I used 87 grainers last year on my trip out to South Dakota, out of a 243wssm. I didnt have time to work up loads using different components, so I picked that bullet and tried various powders. I'm at work and dont have the info in front of me, but I think I used H414. Anyway, the p'dogs lived hard out to 625 yards or so, with my longest being about 715. As usual in May, it was pretty windy too. Windy enough that on a couple of the days we HAD to find dogtowns that we could shoot straight with the wind.,gust to 55+ on the windiest day) The other guys along had 22-250's as their longrange guns, and that caliber wasn't near as effective as the 87 in the 243.

 

[mysticplayer]

just loved the 87gr Vmax in my 6BR. shot great even in winds.

The further you go, the more BC helps you. The irratic misses you see simply means the bullet is at the whim of conditions.

For me when this happens, I get a higher BC bullet or go faster. You can't dope a rifle that is 'wild'. Spray and pray is not much fun.

I have found that real world shooting indicates a higher BC for the Vmax then print suggests so the benefits of this bullet can be substantial.

The best way to decide is side by side testing. Will become very obvious which to use if one bullet seems 'quieter' in the winds,doesn't get bounced around so much).

You are aiming at small targets so small variations mean you miss. Whether its 2" or 2', a miss is still a miss. Anything that you can use to reduce your amount of error will lead to better scores.

I found H322 to work very well when lit by the CCI BR4 primer. I was getting 3100 to 3200fps in a 28" match barrel. That might be a combo to consider for your rig too.

Enjoy...

Jerry

 

[chino1969]

Thanks for all the replies.

I have ordered 1500 87 gr V-max bullets to try out this year.

Wow, I wish I could get 3500 fps! I am hoping for 3050 fps from the 6mmBR case.

Bobby

Yeah, but bear in mind this is from a .243 A.I.. The 6mmBR case, while more accurate, is not close to a .243 A.I. in the speed department. My barrels don't last as long as a 6mmBR either but the terminal effect is worth the price. Groundhogs can get to be 8 to 12+ lbs. in PA during the summer months and are pretty hardy. The 87 grn. Hornady will perform at the distances I like to shoot,250 to 400 yds.) on mature hogs quite well.
Chino69