7mm RM Cleaning and Breakin Options

[FatOldMIHunter]

"I've heard"

From a trusted hunting buddy who also shoots in competitions. Should I assume everything he has told me is wrong just because you don't agree with him?

 

[JRS]

From a trusted hunting buddy who also shoots in competitions. Should I assume everything he has told me is wrong just because you don't agree with him?

Is this the same person who said you can shoot the barrel clean using CFE 223 because it will melt out the copper fouling You've been given good advice throughout this thread. Swallow your pride and clean that barrel.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

Is this the same person who said you can shoot the barrel clean using CFE 223 because it will melt out the copper fouling

No, he did not say that. He said, "Who knows? It might work." He also said, "You'll get a lot of muzzle blast from yahoos who've never tried to improve the accuracy of an old hunting barrel."

 

[AckleymanII]

For use in my barrels that really copper up, butch's is a middle of the road strength copper remover. Montana Extreme Copper killer, Sweets are much more agressive.

All of these chemicals are heat activated, so this super cold weather retards chemical reaction to a degree. For this cold weather application, I use the Montana Extreme Copper Cream or JB. Use these two products on a patches scrubbing back and forth or on a plastic brush(montana extreme I think makes the very best plastic brushes).

I am about to go and clean two 7 mags in my cold garage right now, and then go and shoot.

FatOldMIhunter, you will get to a point to where you will be shooting small groups soon. The load that I gave you for the 140's will Whistle Dixie for you. I have only seen one A bolt that would not shoot that IMR 4350 load into small groups(instead shot 1"), and that particular A Bolt in 7 mag loved a 162g Hornady SST with 65g of R#22 with a CCI 250(sub 1/2" groups).

Best of luck!

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

For use in my barrels that really copper up, butch's is a middle of the road strength copper remover. Montana Extreme Copper killer, Sweets are much more agressive.

All of these chemicals are heat activated, so this super cold weather retards chemical reaction to a degree. For this cold weather application, I use the Montana Extreme Copper Cream or JB. Use these two products on a patches scrubbing back and forth or on a plastic brush(montana extreme I think makes the very best plastic brushes).

I am about to go and clean two 7 mags in my cold garage right now, and then go and shoot.

FatOldMIhunter, you will get to a point to where you will be shooting small groups soon. The load that I gave you for the 140's will Whistle Dixie for you. I have only seen one A bolt that would not shoot that IMR 4350 load into small groups(instead shot 1"), and that particular A Bolt in 7 mag loved a 162g Hornady SST with 65g of R#22 with a CCI 250(sub 1/2" groups).

Best of luck!

Thanks. You've given me hope. I love to shoot this gun. I just didn't love the occasional unexplained long track when using the 160 NPs. That has caused me to seek greater consistency through accuracy improvement. I'm also starting the breakin of a Howa 1500 6.5 Swede. It's taking every ounce of control that I have not to go out and start shooting three shot groups with it. Working on the 7mm RM helps.

 

[4xforfun]

My advice.....fill the case 1/2 full with your special powder , and then fill it up the rest of the way with Sweets or Barns copper cleaner. Double whammy. Twofer.... Then top it off with either the 100 or the 115 (it won't matter) and go test. You should be able to get as much as a 4% - 6% compressed load. Should zap that copper right the hell out of your BBL!!



Tod

PS...Now....NOW you can say that you got some bad information off of this website from my post, because , up till now , pretty much everything has been spot on!!

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

My advice.....fill the case 1/2 full with your special powder , and then fill it up the rest of the way with Sweets or Barns copper cleaner. Double whammy. Twofer.... Then top it off with either the 100 or the 115 (it won't matter) and go test. You should be able to get as much as a 4% - 6% compressed load. Should zap that copper right the hell out of your BBL!!



Tod

PS...Now....NOW you can say that you got some bad information off of this website from my post, because , up till now , pretty much everything has been spot on!!

Have you tried it? Or are you just another one speaking from zero data points?

 

[4xforfun]

WOW

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

I'm sure finding out who presents guesses as gospel. If you haven't tried to rehab an old barrel with CFE 223, it's perfectly acceptable to either say so and present your guess or refrain from guessing. A lot of useful things would never have been tried if people always listened to the "experts" who never tried them.

 

[JBT47]

You could have already tried it and determined it yourself in less time that it has taken you to post all the retorts on this thread. Good luck.

 

[4xforfun]

...the start to a beautiful relationship....

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

You could have already tried it and determined it yourself in less time that it has taken you to post all the retorts on this thread. Good luck.

I could do both. Or maybe I've already cleaned the rifle using stinky chemicals and I'm just letting all the "experts" opine about all the tangential experience they have that may or may not translate to this situation. Ya never know. One of them might even start with, "I haven't tried it, but I don't think it will work because..."

 

[JRS]

Post #19. A quote from Hodgdon, the manufacturer.

 

[Webphut]

There is some really awesome technology for this exact issue. I would call a few local gunsmiths and ask if they have an ultrasonic rifle barrel cleaner or/and an electrolysis rifle barrel cleaner. I would be shocked if these would not do the trick. It worked on my 7MM Rem Mag and it had not been cleaned properly for the first twenty years I owned it. It came out extremely and surprisingly almost too clean while in so so shape given the lack of properly being cleaned for so many years. Just make sure the smith applies a protective oil layer to the barrel before you pick it up.

Shooting more bullets through a fouled out barrel will just impact the existing fouling and whatever else deeper into the barrel.

As for bore scopes, Awesome tools! But really only to be used by someone with trained and experienced eyes. They super super magnify the smallest imperfections and could lead to a huge misunderstanding leading down the path of replacing a perfectly good rifle barrel. A honest and experienced gunsmith will explain to you that even the highest quality rifle bores all have super tiny imperfections.

I once was given a 1903 Mark I Springfield with the Peterson device option (No, sadly, it did not come with the Peterson device)and it had never been cleaned. It was ugly! I had it cleaned using the electrolysis method and I was told by many people it was the cleanest 1903 barrel they had ever seen. So take advantage of the new high tech gadgets gunsmiths have in their arsenal. You will be amazed.

 

[Willie]

My advice.....fill the case 1/2 full with your special powder , and then fill it up the rest of the way with Sweets or Barns copper cleaner. Double whammy. Twofer.... Then top it off with either the 100 or the 115 (it won't matter) and go test. You should be able to get as much as a 4% - 6% compressed load. Should zap that copper right the hell out of your BBL!!



Tod

PS...Now....NOW you can say that you got some bad information off of this website from my post, because , up till now , pretty much everything has been spot on!!

WOW is right. He took that as gospel!
I dropped out on page 1, but I do admire the guys that hung in there and tried to help him. "You can lead a horse to water, but......................"

I was gonna suggest using the coated Tubb bullets, if the bore was in really in bad shape, verified by a good borescope. I've never used them, but sounds like they might be a last resort on a fouling factory barrel.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

There is some really awesome technology for this exact issue. I would call a few local gunsmiths and ask if they have an ultrasonic rifle barrel cleaner or/and an electrolysis rifle barrel cleaner. I would be shocked if these would not do the trick. It worked on my 7MM Rem Mag and it had not been cleaned properly for the first twenty years I owned it. It came out extremely and surprisingly almost too clean while in so so shape given the lack of properly being cleaned for so many years. Just make sure the smith applies a protective oil layer to the barrel before you pick it up.

Shooting more bullets through a fouled out barrel will just impact the existing fouling and whatever else deeper into the barrel.

As for bore scopes, Awesome tools! But really only to be used by someone with trained and experienced eyes. They super super magnify the smallest imperfections and could lead to a huge misunderstanding leading down the path of replacing a perfectly good rifle barrel. A honest and experienced gunsmith will explain to you that even the highest quality rifle bores all have super tiny imperfections.

I once was given a 1903 Mark I Springfield with the Peterson device option (No, sadly, it did not come with the Peterson device)and it had never been cleaned. It was ugly! I had it cleaned using the electrolysis method and I was told by many people it was the cleanest 1903 barrel they had ever seen. So take advantage of the new high tech gadgets gunsmiths have in their arsenal. You will be amazed.

Thanks. I have heard of the electrolysis method. It's like reverse electroplating. There used to be a kit for it, but that was discontinued. I haven't heard of the ultrasonic method. I'll take it to a gunsmith if I can't get it clean.

 

[Webphut]

Thanks. I have heard of the electrolysis method. It's like reverse electroplating. There used to be a kit for it, but that was discontinued. I haven't heard of the ultrasonic method. I'll take it to a gunsmith if I can't get it clean.

If you are unable to locate a shop with either one, you can also try an electro-plating shop. Just explain to them want to have the barrel cleaned, but you want to retain the bluing/outside finish, otherwise you will get back bare metal rifle. This works well too.

 

[FatOldMIHunter]

If you are unable to locate a shop with either one, you can also try an electro-plating shop. Just explain to them want to have the barrel cleaned, but you want to retain the bluing/outside finish, otherwise you will get back bare metal rifle. This works well too.

I was eventually able to get the bore very clean. Sweets and several other of the ammonia based cleaners started out strong but eventually gave up. Bore Tech Eliminator looked to be more effective initially, but then it gave up (or maybe it's more correct to say that I got tired of waiting for it to finish the job). I went from there to altenating treatements of Bore Tech Cu+2 and Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover. That was working but very slowly so next was Kroil + J-B + Kroil. One application of that wasn't enough. Back to the Cu+2, C4, Cu+2, Kroil, J-B, and Kroil. Finally, the smears of copper at the muzzle were gone. I probably spent over 20 hours total on that bore.

After a couple of fouling shots using Reloder 26, I shot my first sub-MOA group ever with that rifle. If I have a barrel that bad in the future, I will start with the harsher Bore Tech products and then do the Kroil+J-B+ Kroil and back to the Bore Tech products as often as it took. They really seemed to complement each other.