7mm rem mag @1000yrds?

[patchhound]

i got a 7mmRM on a rem 700 LH bdl and i`ve been thinking of turning her into a tactcal long range heavy varmit shootin gun. i would start with a match barrel and thats my first question, would a lilja 3 grove work well or should i go 4+. what twist rate do i need for the a-max. what i really need to know is if its worth useing a 7mag for a posible 600+yrd compitition-f class heavy rifle? i dont know much about matchs but i want to do it. does anybody use a 7mag. i can see her potental is good, if anything it could be a high dollar elk gun!

 

[Rtheurer]

Patch hound

The 7 mag will definitely do the job. One thing to keep in mind is the recoil factor of shooting 50 or so rounds in a day for a Match. I am a thin fellow & don't really care for recoil all that much. it fatigues me for long shooting periods. BUT if you want to get started & will use this new hot rod for several things please do so I think you will enjoy it. I have a Sendero that seems to shoot rather well at ALL distances. I shoot the OLD 162 gr AMax very effectively out of it. Ive shot alot of animals with this combo, White tail Mule Deer, coyotes, jack rabbits even a prarie dog. I call it my death stick as it just flat out kills what ever I shoot at. I have SEVERAL competition rifles that cost 3 times what I have into this factory rifle & don't shoot as well, go figure. I shoot a 6.5X284 for NRA Long range matches & have just broke the North Dakota state record for the aggregate with it so Ive done some long range shooting. The two rifle are almost ballistic twins when pushed at 3000FPS. Except for recoil!!! Ive included a picture of what the 7 mag is capable of with the awesome OLD 162gr Amax. Why cant Hornady leave things alone?

 

[patchhound]

your right about the recoil- bullets over 150grs kick my butt although lighter ones like the 120gr nos bt i can shoot all day. i never tried the a-max cause the the box has 1:8 or faster on it. does your rifle have a faster twist or is it 1:9.5 like my 700`s got? what i`m thinking 0f doing is rebarreling it with a good match barrel and instaling a twist on muzle break and a mercury recoil reducer in a custom stock. it seems like the old 7mag dont get the atention it deserves and once i find out were to shoot competition here in WY it might raise soom eyebrows. does anyone have advise on what twist rate i should go with? or even the # of groves? i want to keep barrel life good and copper foulind down.

 

[alg]

I´ve used the amax 162 g. out of a factory, from the "custom shop") ks remington with a 9 1/2 twist. best 3 shot group at 100 m. was 1/3 moa, seems to shoot well. Maybe a 1/9 twist would do better.

As long as you can compensate the lack of twist with enough speed you should be ok, but cannot tell you how the amax behaves at very long ranges in an ordinary 1/9 or 1/9,5 twist.

 

[dantec]

7 RUSM is better than 7 REM MAG for paper shooting

DAN TEC

 

[M700]

Seems to me it was only a few years ago that the good old belted 7mm Rem mag won a major U.S. 1000 yard benchrest match. Sorry I can't remember the specifics... Soft seated 168 Berger VLD's as I recall.

I've had great luck with 168 grain Sierra HPBT Matchkings over either Reloader 22 or H4831. Never shot mine past 600 yards, but it performed very well at that range!

It's been used a lot as a long-range match cartridge in the past, but in recent years the 6.5-284 has really taken over as THE 1000 yard cartridge. Lighter recoil, similar trajectory.

I sure like the 7mm Rem mag as a combination hunting and target cartridge. Regards, Guy

 

[patchhound]

one big reason i consider the 7RM is i think barrel life would be better than a 6.5x 284, and i don`t need to get a different action to build a new rifle. one big probem i got right now is copper fouling, i can shoot sub .5 for 10 or so shots and my factory sport barrels done, it takes a day of soaking solvent to clean it out. has any body tried that Tubb fire bore lapping bullet kit- either way i plan to get a good barrel for her and i think i`ll like it. is it really that bad to use a muzle break in a match? i`ve heard people don`t like them cause they`re loud but it would make it better to shoot??? i want to shoot in a match and all i can find is that military type rapid fire long range stuff... mabee someday i`ll get a m1a but thats not what i`m after right now...

 

[M700]

Matches? Sure... Here's the easy way: Put your 7mm mag on a bipod or get a good rest for it. Sign up at a prone match for "F-class." That's for supported shooting, instead of using a sling.

All the shooters on the line get 20 minutes to put 20 shots downrange. Most matches will have three strings of 20 shots for each shooter during the match. That's a solid hour of shooting. The target is pulled, marked and scored for each shot. You get to take your turn scoring as well as pulling and marking the target. It's been done often with a magnum, in both conventional prone and in F-class. Your 7-maggie is more gun than needed for the game, but so what? If it's accurate, and you shoot it well, it will work.

Don't know what you have avail locally. Here in Washington State there is at least one prone match somewhere in the state pretty much every month. Distances range from 300 - 1000 yards. I usually shoot my .308, but there have been times when I would have much rather had something like your 7mm Rem mag that shoots flatter and faster.

Yeah, muzzle brakes are BANNED at these NRA-style competitions. Way too nasty on the neighboring shooters.

Regards, Guy

 

[Rtheurer]

Patch Hound

Well sounds like you have m ade up your mind for the 7RM. Wyoming has some serous wind so I think you may be in the right ball park. as mentioned above the 168 Match Kings will work well or some of the offerings from Berger bullets. As you can see from the picture above it is capable of 1 mile & 14 yards!!! What side of the state of Wyoming are you from?? In May we have a new shooters clinic that includes a 80 shot across the course match, your refrence to the military rapid fire style) & three 20 shot 1000yd match's on sunday which include the F-class guys. sorry to say that muzzle breaks are not allowed as also mentioned above do to the obvous reseon that the shooter next to you is about three feet away, right where the blast is directed.
Im going to guess your in the Rawlins area??? Bismarck would be 13 hr drive & im sure there are some places closer for you if that is the case. We would be honored to have you up none the less. Good luck. I would try the 1/9 twist.
Russ

 

[patchhound]

hey, Rtheurer, i live about dead center of WY in thermopolis. i have made my mind up and i will start on my 7mmRm project in a few weeks, soon as my gunsmith feels better and gets caught up. i`m thinking of trying a mercury recoil reducer and putting a screw on muzzle break i can remove in a match. would like to get more info on your matches, how for am i? the gun should be done before may. my gunsmith builds many 6.5x284`s and other comtetition rifles, this 7mag will shoot when he`s done. my big question is will a 9 twist stableize the heavy match bullets?and what #`s of groves would work better. i`m considering a 3 grove ss pac-nor or lilja, any sugestions?

 

[Wild_Bill]

Hi i have a 284 Win and use a 9 twist barrel for 175gr Sierra's, 180gr Bergers and A MAx's but i have settled on the Sierra because it is easier to shoot consistantly. The BC on the Sierra is verry conservative i am shooting it at 2860 and have 19.5 moa elevation from 300 to 1000 yards. I also have a 7mm Rem SAUM on a model 7 22" barrel i have shot all the above projectiles in it and the 175gr Sierra back to 600 yards on paper they will stabalise fine i would look at the lilja barrel they are verry god barrels the no of grroves is up to you and mine is a 6 so your choice it is more important to have a good barrel than a specified no of grooves. The 7mm Rem Mag is ok for long range but the shallow shoulder and belt could give you troubles if you dont stay on top of them. I would also look seriously at the 7mm Rem SAUM as you are in the perfect position if uou are going to keep the magazine operational to have the chamber long throated for the VLD's and be able to feed the short mags through the magazine with the long seated bullets. If you go with the 7mm Rem Mag look at fitting a 375/8mm Rem mag length magazine box so you can feed the longer oal bullets.

The 7mm Bullets seem to have an advantage over 6.5's because of the extra size in fish tail winds i dont know why but it seems to work out that way.

Good luck welcome to the land of 7mm's for long range shooting.

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[Rtheurer]

Patch Hound

Hey stud your only 10 hours away acording to Map Quest. That isnt to bad but its long ride home after the match. Wild bill has given some real good advice as far as loading depth with overall length of cartridges. I some times over look that as most of my long range rifles are singleshots. The Sendero in the picture feeds from the mag with the 162 AMAX. I just got lucky on that one. I would pick a bullet or two & put together some dummy rounds with no powder or primmer & start seating some bullets so that they fit in the magazine if you really want to use the magazine. Then take them with to your smith & have him throat to that length. As far as lands & grooves I could really open up a can of worms there. I personally have no preferance. I have had luck with 3,4,5 & 6 groove tubes. I have one PacNor & two Lilja. both shoot good. The Lilja is on a Space gun AR15 that is turning in sub 5/8 MOA. The PacNOR is just my pickup Coyote gun & holds MOA. Ive tried just about all of them. They all shoot well & some times you get a real hummer. Ive only had one Real bad tube & that was a Shilen Crome Moly light hunting countour. They of course replaced it but i switched to a Hart after that. I have no experence with Recoil reducers with Murcury I hope some one jumps in with some knowledge of them. I keep getting asked about them also. Recoil is going to be a little rough but a heavy rifle will help. One advantage is oyur shooting off the bags or bypod so it wont be as bad as when we NRA shooters use a sling & strap in. I tried it once with the sendero before I built my 6.5X284 & it was brutal. Id have to equate it to a bar fight with a bunch of roughnecks.
Good luck & keep asking Questions thats how we all learn.

Russ T

 

[patchhound]

yea Russ, 10 hrs is a long trip but what the hell, i`de do it once or twice just to shoot a real match and meet some real match shooters. sure i could find some praire poodles to tend with on the way home let me know when they start and i`ll see what i can do. i`m starting to really think about what wild bill said about the 7mm saum. this gun will serve a few purposes, more less a tactical, match grade, hunting rifle. i will give up some acuracy for dependibility and pack extra weight hunting but if i get sub .5 moa when its done i`ll be happy. i think bills right about the seating depth and the use of a mag, also, after doing so reserch, the shorter case sounds more acurate. it don`t hurt my feelings not ....ing with that belt no more either. will my bolt work for that case or do i need a new one? just one of a few hunderd new questions i got:cry: i`ll still look into it though and i wont change my mind about 7mm

 

[Wild_Bill]

the 7mm SAUM has the standard Magnum Bolt face so all you will have to do is fit and headspace the barrel the action should work flawlesly you may have to relieve the feed ramps slightly to allow the fatter case to feed but it may work as it is now. Make up some dummy rounds and load them through the mag and see if it is tight just have your gunsmith polish them and they will be fine. I would grt a 9 twist and try the 175gr Sierra they are awsome and will not blow up on the way top the target the thicker jackets make them a lot tougher. If you walt to uset the 175gr Sierra MatchKings on deer get a meplate uniformer and trim them so you have a large hollow point and then they expand relably. I hope yoy have fun building this rifle i would buy 500 cases and sourt your best 200 for target work and use the rest for hunting.

Cheers Bill
Australia

Welcome to the land of the 7mm long range rifle

 

[patchhound]

hey Bill, thanks for the advise, like i said i got a lot of new questions now that i`m thinking of the 7saum. dont look like lapua makes brass for it, do any top line brass makers produce it or would i have to settle with rem or win? whats the case life like, dont think it could be worse than 7Rm. most important, is it acurate enough to compete in hunter class, and other long range competitions that i plan on shooting someday... thats what i was wondering about the 7Rm, i`ve read it`s had it`s place in the past but now most everybody shots 6.5-284`s. i need something with better barrel life so i can practice without burning it up. i dont hunt much so this gun will mostly be a match rifle,someday) and for now be a high power practice gun-very long range varmit killer and a gun powerfull enough to take an elk at a moderate range. i think it would be a good thing to get away from the belted mag thing for a long range match rifle and so far the 7saum sounds ok

 

[M9Powell]

that's what i was wondering about the 7Rm, i`ve read it`s had it`s place in the past but now most everybody shots 6.5-284`s. i need something with better barrel life so i can practice without burning it up.

So far it only exists in my head & a few drawings I've made, but I'm pretty much after the same thing as you. I started out attempting to make a long necked 6.5X284 suitable for a long action with VLD bullets. My theory is that the longer neck might improve barrel life. I started with 7.5X55 Swiss cases necked to 6.5. & improved. Now I'm leaning towards the 376 steyr case necked to 7mm. This should produce a long necked .284 with a more conventional rim than a .284 WIN for more reliable feed from a magazine & slightly more capacity. It should be a little less capacity than the 7mm Rem mag. I'm working with a commercial Mauser action & this allows 4 rds in the mag versus 3 for a belted mag case. I'm more interested in a long range tactical type rifle than a target rifle so magazine feed is important to me. Though I think this ctg would be ideal for 1000 yd bench rest with the Berger 185 gr VLD. Norma makes excellent cases for the 7.5 X 55 Swiss as its widely used in Europe for competition. But the only manufacturer that I'm aware of for 376 Steyr cases is Hornady. I'm sure their cases are good enough for a tactical rifle, I don't know about bench rest. M9

 

[Rtheurer]

Patch hound

Heres what I dont like about the 7 RSAUM. the BRASS! It is plain ole crap. I built my brother a 300 RSAUM tactical rifle on a Model 700 short action complete with a Carbon fiber wraped 5R barrel,his money not mine ; ). He shot some factory ammo through the gun for break in & I comenced to work up a load for it. The weight ranged 7 full grains from the lightest to the heaviest. Neck thickness was also VERY POUR. I tried to talk him into the WSM line of short mags to No avail. He has a AR10 chambered in the Remington also & had dies & such already. You can definatley get it to shoot as good as any with good components but when you buy brass buy alot of it. Then sort it out by weight &,this is the hard part) Throw away the heavies & lights. clean up the primer pockets & definatley the flash holes load them in order from light to heavy & you will be just fine. By the way my 7 Mag uses awsome NORMA brass I skip all the above. As you can tell I have a real dislike for Remington brass but it will work if you put a little effort into it just like anyting else. My fellow team mate shoots a 7RSAUM on a RPA action & does real good., he also has A 7RM on a Time precision action that shoots just as well). alot of options out there bud you will just have to pick a path & go with it. As far as Barrel life for the short guy I hope some one will jump in with a good solid estimate im kind of curious myself. ouuu im excited for ya already this is fun stuff.

RussT

 

[patchhound]

just how much better is the the WSM brass? would make more sence to build a match rifle that has better components availible for it... i saw a collet die for sizing belted cases completly so they chamber after three shotsso now i might just go the same route i started with and stick to my 7RM, the only problem i can see now is seating depth and what i can fit in a mag, i guess you can`t have the best of both worlds in a tac.- match rifle but looking at the nosler load densities a bullet seated past the neck .5 in a 85% full case wont hurt nothing right? one big question i got is can i find a match reamer for a 7RM? also, how do you think 150gr nos BTs would stand in a match cause i can seat them to the bottom of neck and still fit them in my mag, not without jamming way to far in my gun right know), they got a bc of .493 and @3000fps they pack plenty of go?

 

[Wild_Bill]

Forget about the light bullets if you are shooting anything under a 168gr Berger you are wasting your time you may aswell have a 6.5. look at the 175gr Sierra first and the 180gr Berger seccond but be carefull with the bergers so you dont blow them up also they can be trickey to keep tuned. The Sierra 175gr will give you much less wind drift at 1000 yards that is what you want their are also some hand made 7mm Benchrest bullets above 168gr that could be worth a try but the light hunting bullets are not worth using. for yoy tactical matches if you want a lighter bullet for close range the 168gr 7mm Sierra is also verry accurate but i believe you are better off setting up only 1 target load that will work from 100 to 1000 yards use a 9 twist and batch out some Remington cases i use them in my 7mm SAUM and they work fine. i would not go with the WSM the SAUM fits the rem action a bit better and the mag length will be an issue unless you get a long magnum magazine for a 8mm Rem mag or 375 H&H then you can fit them in. The collet sizing dies are verry good for the belted cases but they do make another step in the loading process that is a pain. Get a good close fitting chamber in 7mm SAUM and you then get bushing Redding dies and load and shoot long throat for the 175gr Sierra nad you will never have a problem. The time you will get troubles is trying to run verry hot loads if you have mild loads you will be on the money. With H1000 or Retumbo you will be able to push the 175gr Sierra at 2950 and that is enough you dont have to ring the last foot per seccond out of a rifle. Even 2900 is verry good with 2860fps i have to come up 19 moa from 300 to 1000 yards verry flat.

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[Rtheurer]

Patch Hound

Some more good info from Wild Bill. He seems to like his 7 RSAUM & has gone through the brass situation. I cant say one way or the other on the WSM or the RSAUM as far as feeding. He must have had some experience with the WSM not feeding in a Remington action. I scaned the Internet to find some brass by Lupua or Norma & came up with 300WSM & 270 WSM but no 7 WSM yet. Again I cant say that the Winchester brand brass is better than the Remington in this cartridge. But with the 308 I have found that the Winchester was better for whats that's worth,probably nothing.) On the other hand Lapua & Norma have never disappointed me yet. The brass is FAR Superior to the domestic brands in this respect. Concentricity, neck uniformity, Extreme Spread of case weight & of course flash hole size, location,& uniformity. I will say again that you CAN make good brass out of Remington and others you just have to work it over & throw the bad stuff. The price is ALOT cheaper so it works out about the same minus your labor.
OK I have a question for you. How long is your box Magazine?
I went down to the safe & pulled ole death stick out of the Vault. My Magazine measure's 3.650" in this Sendero. Next I went & pulled some rounds off the shelf & measured them. OAL of 162gr A-MAX loaded so that the Boat Tail is sticking just past the neck & in between the neck & shoulderjuction of the case.,right were I wanted it). they measured 3.460". that is almost a quarter inch of room in the Magazine. .19" to be exact. I have no Berger or Seirra's on hand to compare. This bullet has a,Advertised) B.C. of .625!!!! It must be real close to that because the drop on the sierra Infinity program works out right on the money all the way out to 1500yds. I guess what I am saying is that the 7RM works just fine in my box magazine. The WSM & RSAUM are also good cartridges. ALL of them are capable of outstanding Accuracy. It takes a good system to make that happen. Good Barrel good stock & bedding good trigger, good mounts & scope, good brass bullets powder primers & dies. & A great gunsmith. I don't want to lean you one way or the other just give you some facts that I have available to me. There is ALOT of experience on this web sight & am hopping some one else would hop in & give there expertise. Maybe Im out of line on the info Im giving you? It works for me though. How about you gunsmith types helping out here Im just a shooter.
Wew Man there is alot of options out there. Options are endless.
Hope this helps & I didn't induce more confusion.

RussT