7mm accuracy at 100 yards

[crustyrusty]

I have a couple of questions ....I have spent the last 3-1/2 hours reading the forums about inherent accuracy and accuracy thats acceptance to the round you are shooting at distance.. I want to shoot long rang 600-1000 yards.so On to my first question I own a 280 Remington ADL and its at the smiths shop getting a new Kreiger 26'' fluted barrel and 2-1/2 muzzle brake.. before going to the smith this rifle had seen probably a few thousand rounds thru it. a 175gr spitzer seated just off the lands exceeded the magazine length...ok so when shooting this gun I used IMR-4350, IMR-4320,RL-19,H-414,and BLC-2(not all under the 175gr pill) the very best accuracy was IMR 4320 under 174gr FMJ Prvi bulletat 1.5'' @100yards... other loads either equaled it or slightly worse just under 1.75''@100 yards.... ok for the 60,000 dollar question.,,, what if my new barrel doesn't do any better,, and does this mean its just for deer hunting then,, or what should i expect from my new re-barrel (oh yeah I spent the money on a 280 Remington MATCH reamer but I lost the spec sheet to the reamer that is why I wanna use this gun at distance) with this chamber being a match chamber am I correct that the free bore should be generous? I am hoping that barnes match burners will perform well and my supply of 174gr FMJ will to. so I have a 6-24x50 scope (economy) that is real nice and has performed well on my 280 prior to the new barrel(and trigger!) every rifle I have owned has never shot better than 1'' group @100yards and that is with an real nice rifle sled with weights to manage recoil. as a matter of fact the best group I have ever shot is a 10 shot group that was exactly 1'' at 100 yards and I did that with my savage axis 223 Remington shooting hand loads of 75gr hpbt Prvi Partizan so how are guys getting .456 groups and complaing about it,,or SD's 25-30and complain about it? I just dont get it so when you reload for a particular rifle I know that you look for the particulars like free bore,,length to lands, diameter of neck,, COAL magazine dimensions length of barrel,, number of lands, then you move to powder traits like burn time in barrel pulse time temp of flame pulse propagation of pressure wave(thats where the powder burn rate chart comes in handy)) so HOW CAN I SHOOT .35 INCH GROUP?

 

[ben_g]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/long-range-load-development-at-100-yards.3814361/

Remember a lot of guys here are shooting custom actions off joystick front rests.

Try some Berger bullets and some ADI (Hogden in the states) powder.

 

[swd]

If you want to shoot at 600 and 1000 yards go to a the kind of match that interests you. F Class, PRS, Benchrest, steel, etc. Watch, look their gear over, ask lots of questions. Ask who the match director is so you talk to the experienced shooters.

Most people consistently shooting .350" and smaller groups aren't shooting economy glass and are using true match grade bullets like Bergers and Sierra's or small maker boutique bullets.

How's the gun set up? Bedding, good trigger like a Jewell or at least a very worked over factory. Do you shoot over wind flags? There is so much to know. Getting in with a good group of guys at a range would be a huge help for you.

 

[LA50SHOOTER]

so HOW CAN I SHOOT .35 INCH GROUP?

Find the Bullet & Powder combination that your rifle likes best. - Personally, I'm doubting that off the shelf hunting type bullets are going to be up to that task. I feel that it could be achieved with good 7mm match grade target bullets & I'd be measuring base to ojive and sorting them as well. - Berger target bullets or Lapua Scenar's - Along with some good brass and a tuned load.

 

[crustyrusty]

ok good to know... I want to achieve 100yard success before I do anything first. I bought a hornady LnL neck turn tool, turned all of my 280 brass to .308 od.. I started there because when I went on line,, the spec sheet recommended it the new neck will be .312,,. Also the powder of choice seems to be RL-26 or equivalent like hodgdon h-1000 (again 175gr pills) also h-4831 seems to be a good alternative..This means I have to spend some more money just in powder to see where it will shoot. I have about 250 174gr FMJ,,, 250 175gr sst's and I will buy a hundred of the 171gr match burners to try... I live in northern Michigan and It seems there is a f-class shoot coming up shortly (I think) in Cadillac I will google it and make sure of it.

 

[crustyrusty]

If you want to shoot at 600 and 1000 yards go to a the kind of match that interests you. F Class, PRS, Benchrest, steel, etc. Watch, look their gear over, ask lots of questions. Ask who the match director is so you talk to the experienced shooters.

Most people consistently shooting .350" and smaller groups aren't shooting economy glass and are using true match grade bullets like Bergers and Sierra's or small maker boutique bullets.

How's the gun set up? Bedding, good trigger like a Jewell or at least a very worked over factory. Do you shoot over wind flags? There is so much to know. Getting in with a good group of guys at a range would be a huge help for you.

the rifles first up grade is a 40xb trigger, then the match chamber, then the oversized recoil lug, glass bedded and barrel floated the stock is gonna stay factory cause I inherited it from dad,.... I have never shot over flags or in a competition so its all new territory for me. as for scopes I live on a fixed income and having this rifle re-done has tapped me out financially out for awhile so a new scope is out for some time.so maybe next summer

 

[swd]

the rifles first up grade is a 40xb trigger, then the match chamber, then the oversized recoil lug, glass bedded and barrel floated the stock is gonna stay factory cause I inherited it from dad,.... I have never shot over flags or in a competition so its all new territory for me. as for scopes I live on a fixed income and having this rifle re-done has tapped me out financially out for awhile so a new scope is out for some time.so maybe next summer

What kind of scope is it? There are some lower priced optics that are very good mechanically and some aren't. What kind stock? Wide beaver tail or skinny sporter? What's the trigger set at? Try some Sierra or Berger match bullets. Yes they're more expensive, but there's a reason for that.

And most importantly what kind of LR shooting do you want to do? This decision defines a lot about how your rifle and gear needs to be set up.

 

[Longrange57]

the rifles first up grade is a 40xb trigger, then the match chamber, then the oversized recoil lug, glass bedded and barrel floated the stock is gonna stay factory cause I inherited it from dad,.... I have never shot over flags or in a competition so its all new territory for me. as for scopes I live on a fixed income and having this rifle re-done has tapped me out financially out for awhile so a new scope is out for some time.so maybe next summer

Listen to swd and LA50SHOOTER....I have 10 competition rifles and more than half use Rem 700 actions....I use the same stock on every rifle except 1 short distance rifle set up for 100/200 yards. I use jewell triggers on all rifles. Every trip to the range I try to duplicate and make everything the same. Taking the advice above from those who know and using good quality bullets, brass and loading procedures, seating depth, etc... 1/2 moa or 1/2 inch groups at 100 are achievable. Practice, practice, practice.....but as you ended OP....we all love the idea of having consistent 1/3 moa groups everytime out at ranges up to 1,000 yards! Once you find a combination that works with your equipment....simply perfect it and don't change because someone else is using something different. Happy Shooting!

 

[dryhumor]

I had a good combination with 4831, 162gr Amax, and Norma cases in one of mine. It was good shooter. I was fortunate enough to find a load in 12 shots.
I have another that’s showing potential during break in with RL19 and 4831SC

 

[crustyrusty]

Listen to swd and LA50SHOOTER....I have 10 competition rifles and more than half use Rem 700 actions....I use the same stock on every rifle except 1 short distance rifle set up for 100/200 yards. I use jewell triggers on all rifles. Every trip to the range I try to duplicate and make everything the same. Taking the advice above from those who know and using good quality bullets, brass and loading procedures, seating depth, etc... 1/2 moa or 1/2 inch groups at 100 are achievable. Practice, practice, practice.....but as you ended OP....we all love the idea of having consistent 1/3 moa groups everytime out at ranges up to 1,000 yards! Once you find a combination that works with your equipment....simply perfect it and don't change because someone else is using something different. Happy Shooting!

well I have been reloading now since my dad first taught how to do it in 1974.. amazing that its still for the same rifle!!! of all of my dads buddys who reloaded and shot alot they all considered 1-1/2 groups to be excellent, granted no match bullets were used just good ol' huntin bullets either remington Core-Lokte or Nosler Partions and winchester silvertips.... so with some trepidation and anticipation I want to achieve better. so I want 100 yard groups to be better than .85 I have made many changes to dads rifle so If it shoots better,, waaay better,, I wont know which part was the ingredient that was the "ahhaahh moment ... the real problem I face isnt the scope, isnt the trigger, the barrel, the stock and all of the other pieces of the puzzle its the money to do it justice.. all I can afford is economy or beginners entry level I have a good supply of 25.00 bullets I have a good supply of 25.00 used cases, I bought my powder while it was on sale at cabelas and no hazmat fees the new rifle barrel was from ebay 225. and the reamer was 99.00 from ebay as well. so this is how I was able to put my dads Remington 700 ADL in the smith hands just for the labor cost to finish chamber and bed the action and set the trigger and all of my dies came from ebay for 15.00 so I have to scrimp and save ... so when you talk 10.competion rifles I will never actually own 1,, just the rig I can put together that can come close...so I have to make do with what I have and I HOPE its enough

 

[Longrange57]

well I have been reloading now since my dad first taught how to do it in 1974.. amazing that its still for the same rifle!!! of all of my dads buddys who reloaded and shot alot they all considered 1-1/2 groups to be excellent, granted no match bullets were used just good ol' huntin bullets either remington Core-Lokte or Nosler Partions and winchester silvertips.... so with some trepidation and anticipation I want to achieve better. so I want 100 yard groups to be better than .85 I have made many changes to dads rifle so If it shoots better,, waaay better,, I wont know which part was the ingredient that was the "ahhaahh moment ... the real problem I face isnt the scope, isnt the trigger, the barrel, the stock and all of the other pieces of the puzzle its the money to do it justice.. all I can afford is economy or beginners entry level I have a good supply of 25.00 bullets I have a good supply of 25.00 used cases, I bought my powder while it was on sale at cabelas and no hazmat fees the new rifle barrel was from ebay 225. and the reamer was 99.00 from ebay as well. so this is how I was able to put my dads Remington 700 ADL in the smith hands just for the labor cost to finish chamber and bed the action and set the trigger and all of my dies came from ebay for 15.00 so I have to scrimp and save ... so when you talk 10.competion rifles I will never actually own 1,, just the rig I can put together that can come close...so I have to make do with what I have and I HOPE its enough

Bet you can get there! Sounds like you are working at it!

 

[Laurie]

the very best accuracy was IMR 4320 under 174gr FMJ Prvi bulletat 1.5'' @100yards... other loads either equaled it or slightly worse just under 1.75''@100 yards....

Many, many years ago, the US Army Marksmanship Unit came up with the finding (based on a great deal of range testing, not opinion or prejudice) that around 80% of a cartridge's 'accuracy' in a rifle (actually it's 'precision' to be pedantic) comes from the bullet. That is 1) how well the bullet's dimensions match those of the barrel and 2) how well it is designed and even more importantly made. A bullet with a poor quality jacket (ie inconsistent thickness) for instance will never perform well, so it's no coincidence that Berger Bullets bought the company that makes the superlative J4 jackets in its early days, or that Sierra has long been known for making very good jackets. ......... and that's only the start of making good performing bullets.

I've a lot of time for PPU - they make very good stuff for the price. But, you don't pay under half the price of Sierra's, or a third of Berger's and get the same product. So, go and try a box of some of the better match or hunting bullets before getting too hung up about what your rig will shoot. The 175gn 284 Sierra MK is a superb bullet and easy to tune. It shoots well in most barrels and 7mm cartridges, so it's a good starting point - but there are many others.

 

[crustyrusty]

Many, many years ago, the US Army Marksmanship Unit came up with the finding (based on a great deal of range testing, not opinion or prejudice) that around 80% of a cartridge's 'accuracy' in a rifle (actually it's 'precision' to be pedantic) comes from the bullet. That is 1) how well the bullet's dimensions match those of the barrel and 2) how well it is designed and even more importantly made. A bullet with a poor quality jacket (ie inconsistent thickness) for instance will never perform well, so it's no coincidence that Berger Bullets bought the company that makes the superlative J4 jackets in its early days, or that Sierra has long been known for making very good jackets. ......... and that's only the start of making good performing bullets.

I've a lot of time for PPU - they make very good stuff for the price. But, you don't pay under half the price of Sierra's, or a third of Berger's and get the same product. So, go and try a box of some of the better match or hunting bullets before getting too hung up about what your rig will shoot. The 175gn 284 Sierra MK is a superb bullet and easy to tune. It shoots well in most barrels and 7mm cartridges, so it's a good starting point - but there are many others.

I have found that Prvi Partizan makes a darn good plinkin and hunting bullet.. I have bought sierra 100grain thru 175grspitzers and with near the same accuracy as Prvi I have not bought sierras matchkings yet but I plan to.. I have not bought Barnes Match Burner 171gr yet but I plan too both sierra and Barnes are affordable,,mostly........my new barrel is exactly 1-9twist so I can shoot the 180 something Berger match bullet but at nearly 50.00 a hundred I need to make load development short and sweet or as what it takes to get it done

 

[JFW]

A lot of great advice given here. Berger and Sierra are great choices. I tell guys if you use up 2lbs. Of powder and 400 of lesser quality bullets and not had better results. You can afford Berger's. I would 2nd. Going out to some matches and talking to the guy's who are doing well and looking at their set ups, most, not all shooters are great guys and will try and help fellow shooter's. You can save a ton of money ,by not going through all the trial and error purchases other shooters have made while learning what works and what does not. It's important not to try skimp on your loads, great loads can make an average gun great, but not the other way around. Good luck. You will get there because you want it!

 

[HTSmith]

am I correct that the free bore should be generous?

Is feeding rounds from the magazine important to you? A long free bore works well for heavy match bullets where you'll be loading them one at a time. If you want to feed shorter hunting bullets from the magazine, they may be a long way from the lands (maybe not an issue). The long action Remington has plenty of magazine length, but you need to get enough of the bullet in the mouth of the case to give a firm hold. Of course I've had at least one rifle with a loooong throat that shot short hunting bullets just fine, but it took a lot of load development. Just something to be aware of.

 

[Evan]

Don't get hung up on getting h1000 or rl26. IMR4350 and RL19 are excellent powders in a 280 and can likely give you great results. Since you have them, start there.

 

[crustyrusty]

Don't get hung up on getting h1000 or rl26. IMR4350 and RL19 are excellent powders in a 280 and can likely give you great results. Since you have them, start there.

Yes I have IMR 4350 and RL19 and both powders perform pretty good.....and the caveat is that the heaviest bullet I have shot to date is the 175gr pill of various manufactures .. I am hoping that with the new barrel I can shoot the 180's... but I still suffer from my flinching but I have been working on that and its really helped me with my .223 groups to date as for magazine feeding I can do that or single feed I am flexible that way

 

[Evan]

Yes I have IMR 4350 and RL19 and both powders perform pretty good.....and the caveat is that the heaviest bullet I have shot to date is the 175gr pill of various manufactures .. I am hoping that with the new barrel I can shoot the 180's... but I still suffer from my flinching but I have been working on that and its really helped me with my .223 groups to date as for magazine feeding I can do that or single feed I am flexible that way

Bag of lead shot between the rifle and your shoulder helps a lot, if you haven't tried something similar. Ultimately, if you're wanting outstanding accuracy you have to be relaxed behind the gun. Everyone has different tolerance for recoil. My fundamentals start to slip at 30-06, so I don't shoot it very often and I won't build a rifle that big.

 

[6MMsteve]

concentrate on that crosshair on that spot and squeeze the triggar.. work on this because flinching will cause crazy things...have the trigger break under your control..I still do have shots go off when I don't won't them to..you need a good trigger 10oz or below..you can make a few things at home to help guide the stock..maybe some hdpe with rails,, get some wt in the rear stock no.8 shot will work. maybe a little extra wt or get a used custom stock ready to go with wt..unless your using a bipod..if I was using a bipod type deal.I would go the wide stance with skis..if your using a lead sled get rid of it..and use a rest with a good bag and a rear bag try to get the rifle to recoil straight back. the lead sled is raising your barrel..to places it don't won't to be

 

[6MMsteve]

when I was shooting in the 80's there was all kinds of crazy stock configurations big round bars of steel brass..now days it's the same but hidden in the stock..streamlined ...rudders for the butt stock..I had a pc of 20 lbs 2x4 steel stacked on a 260 rem till I got on here and started learning..the gun would not shoot good..till I learned the wt needs to be in backj..I took it off drilled out the butt poured in shot and presto it went from 3/4 to .3 that quick same load same bullet