788 in 222 accuracy problems

[snert]

Every 788 222 I shot was a good shooter. I agree with the advice given here. Vertical is likely bedding issue, but see end of this post. Get gun properly bedded. Have a smith check the crown while you are at it. Since the gun will be apart and scope off, make sure the mounts are tight and the holes are cleaned out for the mount screws. Remount carefully and tightly. Use a known value scope.

The 222 is really friendly to the handloader. The 788 was a slower twist barrel, so give a try to the older design bullets. The typical 50 to 53 grain spire points, HP's from Sierra, Speer and either IMR 4198 or some H332 should put you in the "see if it shoots now" mode. If you can't get it to shoot a 52 or 53 grain MK with 4198 something is WRONG. From there go back to the 40 grain pill.

Also, not knowing your bench familiarity, watch out for things like allowing the sling stud to contact the bags, resting the barrel on the rest or bag(ouch), shooting off a hard rest surface. These will all create vertical.

The dinged cases are happening on ejection and do not cause innaccuracy on your target.

Let us know how you make out.

 

[snert]

Oh, and if all fails, send it to me for $200, and I will suffer with it!

Snert

 

[JG26_Irish]

Oh, and if all fails, send it to me for $200, and I will suffer with it!

Snert

Isn't it great to have so many friends here on this forum willing to help you out and take that POS off of your hands for you? LOL

Irish

 

[BoydAllen]

If a rifle has bedding issues, fiddling with the loads will not fix them. I shot .222s for years, and had a 788 in that caliber. I don't think that we can diagnose some things effectively on the internet, but I will say that if the barrel and bedding were anywhere near right, yours would not shoot the way that you have described, with any reasonable load. .222s will shoot a variety of components well. My go to combination was a 53 grain Sierra, Federal primers, and 748 with the bullets about .006 into the rifling. I always did a proper load workup, and unless a rifle shot extremely well initially, with little effort, would not waste time and materials on an unbedded rifle. I did my own bedding. Another thing that I generally try if other things do not work, is to switch scopes. I also check scope base and ring screws. One standard test that I make is to count the turns till screws bottom, starting with where the first thread catches, and compare the number with the rifle out of the stock, or the scope base off of the receiver, with what I get with the action in the stock, or the base on the reciever. If the number is the same, you have no tightening of one part to the other.

 

[maximimum]

changed scope no change Im in the process of bedding know. Was talking with a friend about this and he said that i might try wedging the barrel.

 

[snert]

Free float it. you can wedge later...but really, $200 and I will take it off your hands!

Hope it works for you, and let us know

Snert

 

[BoydAllen]

Don't forget to tape off the piece that hangs down from the tang that the rear action screw screws into. It should not touch the stock at all. Also, if you have not checked all of your screws that can bottom you are making a mistake, especially on this particular rifle. The fellow that told you to wedge the barrel sounds like he lacks experience with quality bedding jobs. I floated all of my 788s and they all shot well under 1/2" that way.

 

[Steve Blair]

Boyd is right. 788 barrels, especially in .222 and .223, are moderately heavy. They do not need anything other than floating and should shoot exactly as he described.

 

[snert]

+2 on Boyd's advice. They sure can shoot.

Wish Remington would simply start making them again instead of the recent "redesigns"!

I would buy 2

Snert

 

[Bobs243Ackley]

There is a lot of good solid information here for you to work with. I ran into some of the same issues with my 788 in the deuce. However, the issues were easily taken care of. One problem with finding original 788 parts is that Remington sold the rights, and tooling, of the 788 to Pennsylvania Gun Parts. Because of this, Remington cannot simply start making the 788 again. I had my stock bedded, the trigger worked down to an 18 oz. pull, and what really helped was a good re-crown of the muzzle.

I had the opportunity to talk to Mike Walker, before he passed away, and he said that he would give me one bit of sage advice for the Deuce. He said that if you are having problems, after checking all of the simple things, and you have tried all of the different powders, try IMR-4895, and a good, high quality flat base bullet from 50 to 52 grains. He did say that the loads will not be as fast as some of the others, but it will generally shoot bug holes. I tried the IMR-4895, and it is the only powder that I will shoot in mine, after testing with it! Mine is not fussy as long as I use either the Speer 50 grain TNT, or 52 grain Berger, bullets. He said that this is the powder that was used to test for accuracy of the 40X rifles, chambered in the Deuce, from when he had been running the Remington Custom Shop. I will gladly give up a bit of velocity for consistency of accuracy anytime!

I hope that this bit of information will be as helpful for your 788, as it has been for mine.

Bob Blaine

 

[fdshuster]

I know it's a shot in the dark, but along with all the other suggestions, try seating the bullets .020" off the lands. Both my 222's MUST be seated with that amount of jump or the groups will open up.

Years ago I took some recent reloads and fired them for group at 200 yards, (Hart 14 twist), and they were more than double the normal group sizes. Was going nuts trying to figure out what was wrong. Gave up & returned home, measured the seating depth & discovered I had seated them all to touch. Seated an additional .020", returned to the same club, weather conditions, etc. & the groups were once again their usual boring 1/2 moa.

Not saying this is your answer, but just something else to try & it does not cost an arm and a leg.

 

[maximimum]

I know it's a shot in the dark, but along with all the other suggestions, try seating the bullets .020" off the lands. Both my 222's MUST be seated with that amount of jump or the groups will open up.

Years ago I took some recent reloads and fired them for group at 200 yards, (Hart 14 twist), and they were more than double the normal group sizes. Was going nuts trying to figure out what was wrong. Gave up & returned home, measured the seating depth & discovered I had seated them all to touch. Seated an additional .020", returned to the same club, weather conditions, etc. & the groups were once again their usual boring 1/2 moa.

Not saying this is your answer, but just something else to try & it does not cost an arm and a leg.

so to do this do i just seat .020 shorter then the recommended overall length?

 

[BoydAllen]

Do you know how to determine at what length a particular bullet is just touching the rifling? I am sure that he is talking about loading .020 shorter than that. No one that I know of, pays any attention to the recommended lengths in reloading manuals, they measure where the bullet contacts the rifling or determine what jam length is for the rifle that they are loading for, and set their seating depth from either of those points.

 

[pacificman]

Quote: so to do this do i just seat .020 shorter then the recommended overall length?

Yes you can measure .020 shorter overall length but you would get a more accurate measurement if you measure the ogive of the bullet you are shooting. This gauge has been very helpful to me over the years. Here is the link:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/570611/hornady-lock-n-load-overall-length-gage-bolt-action

 

[maximimum]

is this gauge the only way to do this?

 

[pacificman]

is this gauge the only way to do this?

No...I have partial sized a case neck (no primer or powder of course) so that the bullet will move into the case when chambered touching the lands. This method is time consuming as the bullet will sometimes stick in the barrel. This method is not as accurate as you are shoving the bullet into the lands. It must be done several times to get an accurate reading. Some have mentioned using a sharpie painting the bullet with some ink so that you can find out when the bullet "just touches the lands"to get a more accurate reading.

 

[mac86951]

I use a cleaning rod inserted from the muzzle. Mark the area of the rod with the bolt closed, and again with a bullet (no case) in the lands. Support the bullet into the lands anything to hold it in place. No marks, no guessing, great feel for force of bullet on the rifling, and please DO make several measurements you'll find plenty of variation from bullet to bullet.

The COAL measurement is from bare bolt to bullet in lands, easy and I'm sure you already have the tools.

-Mac

is this gauge the only way to do this?

No...I have partial sized a case neck (no primer or powder of course) so that the bullet will move into the case when chambered touching the lands. This method is time consuming as the bullet will sometimes stick in the barrel. This method is not as accurate as you are shoving the bullet into the lands. It must be done several times to get an accurate reading. Some have mentioned using a sharpie painting the bullet with some ink so that you can find out when the bullet "just touches the lands"to get a more accurate reading.

 

[maximimum]

hears the list
1] bedded action
2] shortened action screws
3] free floated barrel
4] polished the crown
and hears my 6 shot group better but not as good as id like. maybe its just working with loads from hear.

 

[maximimum]

6 shot group

 

[snert]

$200 plus shipping, FFL fees, just let me know.... ;D

snert