700 Action ?

[KeithF]

For those with experience with different 700 actions, I’d like some input on them. Namely the basic 700 action from buds, the PTG blueprinted and the custom actions like Stiller, Bat, etc. I understand that a blueprinted or custom will be turned by an individual to tighter tolerance. But, what gains are to be expected from a blueprinted or custom action over the basic action with equivalent, custom barrels.

 

[dkhunt14]

The choice of port configuration. Probably tighter tolerances. Matt

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Blueprinted actions basically just give you a more square action and mire accurate threads on the tenon.

With full custom actions rigidity is one of the big gains you will receive. Most custom actions are at least 1.350" diameter and go up from there. After that the gains are, extremely accurate tolerances, accuracy of threads, squarness of receiver to recoil lug abutments and bolt face, smoothness of bolt cycling, pinned or integral recoil lugs, oversized scope base mounting screws/pins in scope bases/integral scope base rails, better extraction with M16 style extractors, firing pins housed in raceways, proper anti-binding cocking piece clearance, adjustable trigger hangers for timing, heavy rear tangs for extra rigidity on the back of the action, and finally customization of loading and ejection ports.

I'm sure I missed a couple things, but hopefully that gives you an idea of where your extra money is going in a full custom action. Try having a gunsmith perform all that to a stock 700 action and it will cost you WAY more in the end and you still won't have an action as rigid or true as a good custom like BAT produces.

 

[geraldgee]

Hard to get your money out of a R700 action once you pay for blueprinting, bushing a firing pin, etc. Done properly, it will improve performance, but in the end you still have a 700 action. I have a couple that are used in very accurate rifles. I not going to sell them but if I tried, I would end up losing money on them.

 

[KeithF]

Thanks for the replies. Rigidity would be a huge gain, for sure. I wasn’t thinking about that. Greater diameter would make a stiffer action as well the benefits of more thread tenon. I have only shot factory rifles thus far and I’m interested in a better rifle. A build will actually be for my teenage son. He has expressed interest in the sport and has done quite well. A friend has a Stiller/Krieger F TR setup and he had the opportunity to shoot it. He surpassed my abilities with that rifle and I’d like to get him a competitive rifle if he decides to stick with it. Again, thanks for the replies. They will help in the decision to build, that I’m confident will be made. I’ve never been able to convince the wife that I needed a new rifle, but my son has way more pull.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I wouldnt be too concerned with the cost of an action. When you look at all the features and added benefits, they are certainly worth it and will hold their value well. Your largest expense on a single component for a competitive rifle will be the optic. Some of the better optics can cost more than the action, barrel, stock, and trigger combined

 

[expiper]

build it around a Panda F-class,,,,he will enjoy it the rest of his life,,,Roger

 

[Liven The Dream]

I have a couple 700's on Long Range Prone Rifle with not a lot of Money put in them..
They are not holding my scores back one point...

I do have $$$ in the triggers and Barrels , this you would do with a Custom Action.....
I all so have a few Barnard Model P Actions . Now for the Price and they come with a Great trigger ..
This is the only way to go for a Target Rifle.

 

[carlsbad]

Not everyone will agree but I say it matters not for accuracy. The difference is in fit and finish, operation, extraction, firing pin, bolt fit, etc.

I've bought several 700 actions from Remington lately and the fit and finish of the actions when you buy "action only" is a step above the donor actions you'll get from a $300 on sale remington at Walmart.

The PTG deal they offer occasionally to get a Rem action with their bolt fitted into it is a smoking deal for around $400. The upgraded bolt provides a .062 firing pin, a nice fit, and improved primary extraction.

From there you more than double the price to get Mercedes performance. If you've got plenty of money to get the best, do so. but you're paying more than double the price to get the last 5% of performance. But they are very nice. From cosmetics to smooth cocking, to perfect primary extraction. If I go custom action, I want on with a trigger hanger. Allows you to adjust ignition timing and is much easier to remove and install triggers.

One caveat: If you shoot hot loads and rely heavily on primary extraction, you'll need to either get a remington bolt handle adjusted, put a properly timed PTG bolt in (requires gunsmithing) or buy a custom action. Each of those options is an improvement over the previous.

--Jerry

 

[SteveOak]

I have had several 40X actions. They were trued and worked by the best Remington gunsmith in the world. They were fine. I never able to point to a specific shot as being adversely influenced by it being a trued/blueprinted 40X rather than a custom action. That being said, I would not buy another one. (Probably )

As you fire a rifle the burning powder releases heat as a byproduct. The raises the temperature of the action and barrel and causes them to expand. As they expand an action and barrel that are out of square will not expand in a linear manner, potentially causing the point of aim to shift. Even if it shifts only a millionth of an arc second, it shifts as the result of not being square/true. A blueprinted or custom action will exhibit less thermally induced distortion.

You can give a 40X action to the best Remington gunsmith in the world (I know him. ) and tell him to do everything possible to improve it and it will still not be as good as a Stiller Predator. The point of blueprinting is to ensure that all of the dimensions of the action fall within design specifications, which are not a precise as for a custom action. Also, Stiller has made changes to the action that cannot be replicated if you start with a 40X. Even if you told the gunsmith to improve the 40X to Stiller Predator tolerances it would not be as good.

When you true/blueprint a 40X you can only remove, not add material. You have to cut the face, barrel threads and bolt lug races. The only thing you can do to improve them dimensionally is to make them larger. With a custom action you can buy a used barrel from someone and screw it on and shoot. With a reworked 40X, almost certainly not.

As has be pointed out, you will never recover the money you spend on truing/blueprinting a factory action. Would a well worked factory action be up to your requirements? Possibly. Would it be a good deal for you? Possibly.

Moving up to a proprietary custom like a BAT, Kelby or Borden, it gets even better. Lighter, stronger, choice of bolt/port configurations, whatever you need.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

As you fire a rifle the burning powder releases heat as a byproduct. The raises the temperature of the action and barrel and causes them to expand. As they expand an action and barrel that are out of square will not expand in a linear manner, potentially causing the point of aim to shift. Even if it shifts only a millionth of an arc second, it shifts as the result of not being square/true. A blueprinted or custom action will exhibit less thermally induced distortion.

This reminds me of another advantage with some of the custom actions. I pay close attention to how and 'when' custom actions are machined. Companies like Borden machine their actions AFTER the steel has been hardened. Machining the steel beforehand can cause the action to warp when the hardening process is later applied to the steel. Just another one of the important details to look for when researching the manufacturing process of actions.

 

[1K6BRA]

I have a panda F class action and a Borden BRM action, like my panda....love my Borden! Either way you can’t go wrong.

 

[steve123]

For those with experience with different 700 actions, I’d like some input on them. Namely the basic 700 action from buds, the PTG blueprinted and the custom actions like Stiller, Bat, etc. I understand that a blueprinted or custom will be turned by an individual to tighter tolerance. But, what gains are to be expected from a blueprinted or custom action over the basic action with equivalent, custom barrels.

Custom actions are about 20 billion times cooler, that's why! Just kidding, but not really.

I chose a ARC Mausingfield because it's not just another M700 clone-ish action. I'm actually a fan of M700 too, owned more than I can remember, some with everything done to them.

The ARCM, Mainly I like how the extractor claw cams away from the case when the bolt is closed and that the ejector is a passive Springfield type so there is no spring tensioned plunger ejector putting pressure on the case. Actually there's quite a few attributes it has going for it besides these. It might be entertaining for you to look it up.

 

[butchlambert]

This reminds me of another advantage with some of the custom actions. I pay close attention to how and 'when' custom actions are machined. Companies like Borden machine their actions AFTER the steel has been hardened. Machining the steel beforehand can cause the action to warp when the hardening process is later applied to the steel. Just another one of the important details to look for when researching the manufacturing process of actions.

What customs heat treat after machining?

 

[Ledd Slinger]

What customs heat treat after machining?

I don't know. There's so many 700 clone customs out there these days it's hard to say. Wouldn't be surprised if a few of them try to cut corners to save a buck on time and tooling that way. Just something to be aware of and look for. Kind of like making sure your rifle scope doesn't have a "Made in China" sticker on it

 

[butchlambert]

I don't know. There's so many 700 clone customs out there these days it's hard to say. Wouldn't be surprised if a few of them try to cut corners to save a buck on time and tooling that way. Just something to be aware of and look for. Kind of like making sure your rifle scope doesn't have a "Made in China" sticker on it

Never heard of any customs heat treat after machining. They are not that hard and are easy to machine.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Never heard of any customs heat treat after machining. They are not that hard and are easy to machine.

Ok...Then why would they feel the need to make hardening prior to machining a point when describing their process? Just the same as mentioning key features like integral lugs and rails. Not all of them claim machining after hardening in their documentation. Doesn't mean they don't harden before machining, but it might. "Ya gotta have the guarantee ON THE BOX!" #TommyBoy. Lol

 

[JRS]

Ok...Then why would they feel the need to make hardening prior to machining a point when describing their process? Just the same as mentioning key features like integral lugs and rails. Not all of them claim machining after hardening in their documentation. Doesn't mean they don't harden before machining, but it might. "Ya gotta have the guarantee ON THE BOX!" #TommyBoy. Lol

You couldn't recognize the difference anyway. Manufacturers are not obligated to disclose everything they do, and many make claims that are misleading/not true.

 

[Eddie Harren]

You couldn't recognize the difference anyway. Manufacturers are not obligated to disclose everything they do, and many make claims that are misleading/not true.

Sort of like the communists!

 

[LHSmith]

The point of blueprinting is to ensure that all of the dimensions of the action fall within design specifications, which are not a precise as for a custom action. Also, Stiller has made changes to the action that cannot be replicated if you start with a 40X. Even if you told the gunsmith to improve the 40X to Stiller Predator tolerances it would not be as good.

When you true/blueprint a 40X you can only remove, not add material. You have to cut the face, barrel threads and bolt lug races. The only thing you can do to improve them dimensionally is to make them larger. With a custom action you can buy a used barrel from someone and screw it on and shoot.

Custom actions are built to varying tolerances ( as a means to minimize costs and stay competitive)- so not all custom actions are created equal....and quite a few "out of tolerance" actions escape QC. It is very true some customs just fail to shoot well -even if they are compared to consecutive S/N's.
Stolle Panda's (all but the earlier vintage) are the ONLY action that allows complete interchangeability with barrels. Kelbly has their act together on this one- If they can do it why don't the others?