I just ordered a Russian M91/30 Mosin Nagant Rifle 7.62x54R and want/will be reloading ammo for them and I want to know if there is anything I should know about loading these and if needed, any particular brand of dies, primers or whatever that is better for reloading. I've reloaded .223 & 22-250's so I know all the normal things about reloading rifle ammo.
7.62x54R???
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just out of curiosity, are you planning to start with new unfired brass, or once fired? i would imagine once fired is somewhat difficult to come by. as brass case ammo is so expensive compared to steel case mil surp. although highly not recommended, it is possible to convert the steel cases from Berdan to Boxer primer though. or at least in theory. from what ive seen on youtube. lol i will be looking forward to following your progress, as i have 2 m-44's and eventually i would like to be able to reload for all calibers i shoot.
Lapua makes brass. Got one myself but not reloading for it yet. Till now. You got me wanting to shoot it. Hah.
Brass in stock at midway.
Dan
Grafs has prvi brass for half price of the Lapua.
Brass in stock at midway.
Dan
Grafs has prvi brass for half price of the Lapua.
as good as the M44's shoot with mil surp ammo, i can only imagine a 91/30 with archangel stock and some good reloads.
I would think I would start out with new brass as I start out and then finding what I can in once fired brass. I'll probably not shoot it that much so a few hundred cases should do the trick plus maybe some new ammo that I buy and reload. I'd really like to try it out at the 600/1000yd range but with open sights and my old eyes I don't know if that would be practical unless I could figure out a way to put a scope on it ;D
BTW, what size bullets does everyone use, .308, .310
BTW, what size bullets does everyone use, .308, .310
My brief research shows .311 with the Sierra pro hunter (or similar name) in 180 gr being quite popular. The prvi 150 gr .311 caught my eye for the price, 25 cents.
I bought a 91/30 a few months ago, very happy with it. Picked it up locally for $190 , and the rifle is a Century refurb all functionally checked, excellent barrel and with some nice looking wood. Be carefull about buying antique's via the internet as you never know what you will recieve. Seller's condition opinions are always hyped up and in some cases leaving the buyer very dissapointed. I also picked up some cheap PPU x54R brass ammo for future reloading. You're not going to easily find cheap once fired X54R brass on the net, so keep this in mind. Most people buy a Mosin to shoot cheap millsurp not brass ammo. You also need to committ to the odd .310 type bullets if you intend to reload for more precision accuracy. While i'm not fully experienced with handloading x54R (I just started handloading x54R a few weeks ago) i'm hearing you can load common .30 bullets but accuracy suffers. I bought the Lee Pacesetter x54 dies, and ordered the optional Lee .311 sizing mandrel. Shooting off a rest, i'm at about 2 MOA @ 100 yds with millsurp ammo. Pretty respectable for a box stock 91/30 rifle . The only mods i've done (and it's almost a mandatory upgrade) is the trigger. Stock it's about a 10# pull with about an inch of linear creep before it goes bang. So get the $6 trigger "enhancement" kit and you're done. They are SO much fun to shoot and easily had. I bought 2 millsurp spam tins (880 rounds) of x54R for $200 . If you have not already check out http://7.62x54r.net/ a WEALTH of history and data on Mosins'
I have a VAST amount of experience loading and shooting the MNs in 7.62x54R.
FIRST: You will need to slug your bore to see what size bullet you will need to shoot to be accurate. You can do a search on how to do this. Basically it is driving a .315 diameter muzzle loader lead ball from the chamber end out the muzzle and measuring between the high spots which are the groove depths. If it comes out .310 to .311 use .311 diameter bullets if .311 to .312 use .312 diameter bullets. If over .312 diameter send it down the road because it will not shoot accurately with jacketed bullets. These rifles have a great difference in bore sizes and most of the military ammo is NOT accurate because it usually has .310 diameter bullets. Most of the military ammo has corrosive primers and you will need to clean the bore and bolt with hot soapy water to kill the salts after shooting it so it does not rust up over night. I have never seen a rifle in this caliber that you could hit the broad side of a barn with .308 diameter bullets. Be advised that much of the loading data you will find actually uses .308 bullets.
NEXT: Expect your 91/30 to shoot around 6 to 8 inches high at 100 yards unless you put the bayonet on. These rifles were sighted with the bayonet fixed because that is the way the Russians used these rifles. You will notice if you do some history searching that the Russians did not have any bayonet scabbards. It is because the bayonet was to ALWAYS be attached to the rifle. There are ways to replace the front sight post with a longer post to lower the POI. Do a search to find how.
NEXT: I am not sure if the Lee dies now have a expander in the sizing die that is for use with .311/12 bullets. They used to be for .308 and if you used a .311/12 it would shave the bullet or squish the neck or shoulder of the case. I chose RCBS because they come with both size expander balls. I do suggest that you get a Lee Factory Crimp Die because from my extensive testing it DOES increase the accuracy in these rifles. I actually use a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the .308 Win with a big washer between the shell holder and die slipped over the case as a spacer to make it work with the 7.62x54R case.
NEXT: The Prvi/PPU ammo is the least expensive way to get good reloadable cases. These cases are good. If you get Lapua cases you will notice that they are listed as 7.62x53R not 54R. They are the proper case but due to regulations in the country of origin they can not have a "military" caliber. Sounds like Washington doesn't it. Only difference in the two is that the neck is trimmed just a touch shorter.
NEXT: One of these two loads has shot lights out in all of my MANY different model 7.62x54R rifles. With proper handloads and proper tuning of the rifle these old war horses can be VERY accurate meaning well under MOA accurate.
PPU or Lapua case, CCI 200 primer, 50 grs Accurate 4350, for rifles needing .311 diameter bullets use the .311 Sierra Match King (Most accurate) or .311 180 gr. Sierra SP. COAL 3.000 and use a medium crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.
If you need .312 diameter bullets use the above load but use Hornady .312 174 gr RNSP bullet COAL 2.790. These rifles like the long heaver bullets best.
There are ways to make these rifles REALLY accurate by shimming under the action, wrapping oiled felt around the barrel up in the forearm area etc. You can do a search on the net and you can find this information. Good luck and have fun.
FIRST: You will need to slug your bore to see what size bullet you will need to shoot to be accurate. You can do a search on how to do this. Basically it is driving a .315 diameter muzzle loader lead ball from the chamber end out the muzzle and measuring between the high spots which are the groove depths. If it comes out .310 to .311 use .311 diameter bullets if .311 to .312 use .312 diameter bullets. If over .312 diameter send it down the road because it will not shoot accurately with jacketed bullets. These rifles have a great difference in bore sizes and most of the military ammo is NOT accurate because it usually has .310 diameter bullets. Most of the military ammo has corrosive primers and you will need to clean the bore and bolt with hot soapy water to kill the salts after shooting it so it does not rust up over night. I have never seen a rifle in this caliber that you could hit the broad side of a barn with .308 diameter bullets. Be advised that much of the loading data you will find actually uses .308 bullets.
NEXT: Expect your 91/30 to shoot around 6 to 8 inches high at 100 yards unless you put the bayonet on. These rifles were sighted with the bayonet fixed because that is the way the Russians used these rifles. You will notice if you do some history searching that the Russians did not have any bayonet scabbards. It is because the bayonet was to ALWAYS be attached to the rifle. There are ways to replace the front sight post with a longer post to lower the POI. Do a search to find how.
NEXT: I am not sure if the Lee dies now have a expander in the sizing die that is for use with .311/12 bullets. They used to be for .308 and if you used a .311/12 it would shave the bullet or squish the neck or shoulder of the case. I chose RCBS because they come with both size expander balls. I do suggest that you get a Lee Factory Crimp Die because from my extensive testing it DOES increase the accuracy in these rifles. I actually use a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the .308 Win with a big washer between the shell holder and die slipped over the case as a spacer to make it work with the 7.62x54R case.
NEXT: The Prvi/PPU ammo is the least expensive way to get good reloadable cases. These cases are good. If you get Lapua cases you will notice that they are listed as 7.62x53R not 54R. They are the proper case but due to regulations in the country of origin they can not have a "military" caliber. Sounds like Washington doesn't it. Only difference in the two is that the neck is trimmed just a touch shorter.
NEXT: One of these two loads has shot lights out in all of my MANY different model 7.62x54R rifles. With proper handloads and proper tuning of the rifle these old war horses can be VERY accurate meaning well under MOA accurate.
PPU or Lapua case, CCI 200 primer, 50 grs Accurate 4350, for rifles needing .311 diameter bullets use the .311 Sierra Match King (Most accurate) or .311 180 gr. Sierra SP. COAL 3.000 and use a medium crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.
If you need .312 diameter bullets use the above load but use Hornady .312 174 gr RNSP bullet COAL 2.790. These rifles like the long heaver bullets best.
There are ways to make these rifles REALLY accurate by shimming under the action, wrapping oiled felt around the barrel up in the forearm area etc. You can do a search on the net and you can find this information. Good luck and have fun.
Thanks for taking the time posting all your knowledge 2506 !! Oddly my 91/30's sighting was pretty close for how I look down the sights. Granted I have really poor eyes, and seemed like my POI was about 1.5" high at 100yds.
I do need to slug my barrel as well, I tried with a 1/8 oz lead sinker and it was WAY too tight. The OD was about .345 . I'll try your suggested true lead balls, errr.... "projectiles"
I do need to slug my barrel as well, I tried with a 1/8 oz lead sinker and it was WAY too tight. The OD was about .345 . I'll try your suggested true lead balls, errr.... "projectiles"
Thumb said:
Even after adding the trigger kit your pull will be about 5#. The Mosins' use a crude but reliable trigger design. I've really enjoyed learning about the Mosin design. They are fairly easy to field strip for maintenence. The bolt is a bit of a PIA until you get familiar with it's design. I use Hoppes #9, some Windex and finally some Aerokroil for combating the millsurp corrosive ammo.
Years ago my brother and I had a few of these rifles. His a 91, mine a Tikka reman. They came free with a case of ammo. He is smart enough to still have his. They shot very well all things considered and with the ammo and grade of rifles available today, only better.
In the fall I shot a Teledyne Moszilla. It started as a brand new un-issued rifle and they worked it over. Not "cheap" but in the realm of 4-7000 dollar tact rifles and bench rifles...well 1200.00 for a plinker that shot into 1/2" with mixed surplus ammo it looks like a deal more and more. This one has a Bushnell 10x on it and we rang the 1K gong with it at will.
http://www.teludynetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/new-teludyn.png
In the fall I shot a Teledyne Moszilla. It started as a brand new un-issued rifle and they worked it over. Not "cheap" but in the realm of 4-7000 dollar tact rifles and bench rifles...well 1200.00 for a plinker that shot into 1/2" with mixed surplus ammo it looks like a deal more and more. This one has a Bushnell 10x on it and we rang the 1K gong with it at will.
http://www.teludynetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/new-teludyn.png
2506 said:
Great post 2506 and spot on the money with all of your recommendations.
Thumb - once you get squared away with your 91/30 and the 7.62X54r cartridge, start beating the bushes for a nice Finn M39 - a Mosin that is guaranteed to put a smile on your face.
Minesweeper3433
45B/91F
I have a PU scoped 91/30 that shoots very well with norma casings and sierra 303 174 grn matchkings. Don't try to go for velocity. Start low work up for accuracy. Mine shoots very very well at only 2450 FPS out of that long barrel.
One thing I have discovered messing about with these rifles over the years is that they tend to have long chambers, which is no big deal with .mil ammo, as they headspace on the rim. What it does affect however, is brass life, as the shoulders flow forward when you fire them. When you resize them with a FL die, they are pressed back to the starting point. Do this a couple times and you have a case head separation.
IMO, contact C&H Tool and Die and send them a few of your fired brass and have a die made up to fit your chamber. It will assure safer reloads.
My $.02. As always, YMMV.
IMO, contact C&H Tool and Die and send them a few of your fired brass and have a die made up to fit your chamber. It will assure safer reloads.
My $.02. As always, YMMV.
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