6XC 87 Vmax Powder Recommendation

[Hoot]

I have a short throated 6XC and will be doing a ladder test tomorrow morning. I will be loading 87 Vmax bullets that have been HBN plated and was wondering if I'd be too light, too slippery for H4350? Possibly drop back to something a little faster like Varget? Also have CFE223 and some of the newer RL16. Also jump 'em or kiss the lands?

Opinions?

Thanks,
Hoot

 

[B23]

I'd sure think RL16 would be a very good choice. Not the same but fairly close, I use RL16 in my 6mm Creedmoor with the middle weight bullets. I generally shoot everything 5-15 thou off of touch.

 

[mongo chicago]

My 6XC does great with Varget. Also used it my 6mm Rem. with 87 grainers.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I would think Varget might be ideal.

I am shooting AR COMP with 108s and it is faster than Varget and man does it shoot good. I do not try to shoot it crazy fast.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Pick a light load first. Something like 38 grains of H4350 and a do a seating depth test first.

35 jump
25 jump
15 jump
5 jump
5 Jam
10 jam
20 jam

Three shots each
Repeat three times
Use the same target paper for the whole test and you will definitely see a pattern.

It is good practice session if you use your wind flag. And you will absolutely see the range it likes from left to right on the target sheet.

 

[Hoot]

Well, I didn't see the last three replies and of course, went in the opposite direction. Went with a .0015 jump and multiple 3-shot charges of both RL16 and H4350. After meticulous case prep and loading practices, I was left discouraged and doubting my bench technique and LabRadar chronograph, the latter which up to now has been fairly dependable. Sure I got a hiccup once in a while but well within expectations (both cases). My groups are too ugly to post an image. Both powders delivered close to QL predictions and to each other in resultant velocities for charge weight increments but for the life of me, I could only get one of eight rungs to resemble a decent group (~.6 MOA) at 100 yds. Of course, that was the max charge (41.5gr) of RL16 that I had to use a drop tube to get enough room for the bullet to seat with my 2.52 COL (remember short throat). My reasoning was trying to find a friendly charge or two and then experiment with the jump on the next range day. Velocity SD's were all over the place (9.2 to 30+) for the shots that didn't receive "Acquisition Error" messages. I tried all the tricks to get the LabRadar to settle down but after about 10 of the 24 shots, they were the rule not the exception. Very frustrating. I am used to putting up 5-shot groups barely above a ragged hole at only 100 yds, in multiple calibers up to the 450 Bushmaster. I have a good 2-piece rest setup for BR. If I had had it with me, I would have been tempted to break out my 1-piece Cliff Arnold rest, just to see if the variable in the equation was me. Conditions were just about ideal. Light overcast, no wind (I know only 100 yds) and temps in the low 70's. Best of all no Peterson stiff bolt lifts until ther max charge (41.5gr) of H4350. No excessive case head expansion either.

We all have the occasional bad range days and I think it was my at bat. I will now retreat to the man cave; lick my wounds and regroup. (no pun intended) I'm not done with the 87 Vmax. Next time out, I'll pick a middle of the road charge and vary the jump. I'll also take my 1-piece rest with me.

Hoot

 

[Hoot]

Lest I forget. A big thanks to those of you who replied. I appreciate your inputs. I usually clean my rigs at the range while they're still warm but I knew I would be giving this rig a thorough going over when I got home, given the results that I got. OMG! I would never have expected the bore to be so full of carbon after only 24 rounds, spaced out over a couple of hours. I suspect now that all the 'Acquisition Errors" could have very well been from ejecta coming out of the side gills on the muzzle brake, right in front of the radar path. From now on, when I get that kind of error, I may well stop and clean the barrel and brake, which had carbon caked inside it as well. Never expected to see that. The only plus side was negligible copper presence which comes as no surprise given the HBN plating. I lost .005 throat from only 24 rounds! Admittedly, all that clocked through the Labradar were at least 3k fps, with a max (41.5gr) charge of RL16 yielding 3342 and the same charge of H4350 yielding 3335. I didn't think those max velocities were outrageous. Certainly not enough to erode .005 of the throat, especially with HBN rounds. Oh well, live and be amazed. At this rate it wont be short throated (.050) for long.

I have a lot of AR Comp on hand but didn't consider it in the running given how fast it burns compared to the two powders I wound up using, however, I'll always take a tip from someone more experienced than me. Ditto on Varget. I'll give them an at bat with a modest charge and play with different amounts of jump next time out.

Thanks again,
Hoot

 

[WyleWD]

What is the Length and twist rate on the barrel you're using? And have you tried any other types of lighter weight bullets successfully from this rifle? WD

 

[Hoot]

What is the Length and twist rate on the barrel you're using? And have you tried any other types of lighter weight bullets successfully from this rifle? WD

Its a SS 26" 1:8 heavy barrel that was painfully, slowly broken in using 70gr Blitzkings. Those are the only two bullets that I've used so far. After several hours cleaning it last night, its spotless and ready to go once again. Accidently knocked my can of Free All off the bench and of course, the stem broke off inside the nozzle.

Hoot

 

[lb-ft]

Hoot,
87 Vmax is exceedingly forgiving. Seat to desired length and shoot. Probably won't need to adjust but if you do, don't go granular. Move .015 at a time.

Varget would be good, RL15 would be good, IMR4064 would be perfect. I learned about it paired with the Vmax in 243 from the cartridge guide on this site and it has shot incredibly well across numerous similar rifles.

Best of luck.

 

[effendude]

With 2 older OTC rifles I have repurposed to varmints, 37 grains of H4350 with a 75 and 87 gr. V-Max or 80 and 88 gr. Berger shot great. Really couldn't tell the difference in bullets or groups out to 200 yds. Simple and easy to load high volume ammo that is easy on barrels. The V-max's have a big jump as the rifles were throated for 105's originally. Jump didn't seem to matter much.
Scott

 

[WyleWD]

Its a SS 26" 1:8 heavy barrel that was painfully, slowly broken in using 70gr Blitzkings. Those are the only two bullets that I've used so far. After several hours cleaning it last night, its spotless and ready to go once again. Accidently knocked my can of Free All off the bench and of course, the stem broke off inside the nozzle.

Hoot

Thanks for the reply. If you don't get the 87's to shoot, don't beat up on yourself. They are "usually" accurate, but some shooters have better luck with them than others.

I have a 10tw 6xc that I use 70gr through 85gr bullets in for hunting. R-15 and 4064 work well in it with no issues. R-16 should work for you too if you happen to have any of it.

I've noticed that Alliant is now selling an R-15.5 that is supposed to be temp stable and anti fouling agent......and Powder Valley has (had) it in stock this morning. I'll be looking at that one and 6.5 Staball at some point in the future. Good luck and let us know how it goes. WD

 

[JohnD]

I never could get the 87 Vmax to shoot well in mine but during load development Varget gave extremely low ES. Ive had better luck with 85 gr. SGK.

John

 

[urbanrifleman]

I've been testing a lot of loads on barrels these days. I have yet to see a load workup where the "max load stiff bolt case full" shot the smallest day after day.

In fact, quite the contrary.

That's why the milder loads are always the "accuracy load" in the books.

My recipe has been to try slightly faster powders and shoot them slower. As far as "target loads". Maybe as much as 2 grains or more from the top. This brought my spreads down. This will be much tougher to do with those slow powders on that case with that lighter bullet. Magnum primers will help.

 

[Hoot]

Well, having just finished loading up two ladders, I'm ready to load my gear in the truck and drive 8 minutes to the range for test 2.

First load is 33.5gr AR-Comp ~50k per QL. Second is 36.5gr Varget, also ~50k per QL, using four different jumps. -.0025, -.0015, -.0005 and +,0005 jam. I took a chance and soaked my SS brake in CLR for 20 minutes and it came out like new. Thoroughly cleaned off the residue and wiped it down with a light coat of oil. Kinda drizzly and dead still this morning but its supposed to burn off mid morning. I will report in once I get home. Just watch, I'll get these 87 Vmax'es dialed in just in time to run out of them.

Hoot

 

[Hoot]

Finally got clear of Dad duties, celebrating my daughter's birthday weekend. Since when was a birthday spread over 3 days anyway? Probably the same fool who came up with half birthdays...

The faster powders (AR-Comp and Varget), did do better both in resulting groups and SD's. Wish I could say as much for my bench shooting abilities. "The older I get, the better I was".

Anyway, here's the data albeit a small statistical sample:

Here's the AR-Comp Target:

and Varget:

Quarter inch grid. After the first group, I thought "Oh Boy, Bus Riley's back in town!" That didn't last long however. Still, I'll take the bitter with the sweet. Couldn't believe I had a dead primer in the Varget run. I guess they're not so valuable that I need to pick them out of the floor sweepings without knowing how long they've been there.

A good time was had nevertheless and I will pursue them some more.

Thanks to all who replied and gave suggestions.

Hoot

 

[urbanrifleman]

Dude, those are 1/4" to 1/2" groups and single digit spreads.

That's one of my barrels. I have no problem saying that. I mean dang... not bad for a $249 prefit. I would suggest a wind flag if you are not using one.

I would try .025" jump, .035, and .045 but you can use .025 jump and do a load workup now.

 

[Hoot]

Dude, those are 1/4" to 1/2" groups and single digit spreads.

That's one of my barrels. I have no problem saying that. I mean dang... not bad for a $249 prefit. I would suggest a wind flag if you are not using one.

I would try .025" jump, .035, and .045 but you can use .025 jump and do a load workup now.

I have a set of 4 Graham wind flags that I use for ARA Rimfire BR shooting. At 100 yds centerfire, never felt the need to break them out. Despite the convenient 8 minute trip to our shooting club for which I'm the rifle range coordinator, it only goes out to 100 yds. Mostly deer hunters sighting in for the upcoming season right now and some crazy guy who's constantly checking his brass with a mic.

 

[AckleymanII]

I had exceptional luck in a 6 BRX with the 87's with IMR and H4895,10T, tiny groups in the 2's, throated around .050. The 6 XC with the 87's should make a fantastic combo and with the short throat, very long barrel life.

My first powder choice would be AA2700 due to how cool it burns that has the burning rate in the 4350's area, then if that does not pan out, IMR 4064. These days, you have to use what powder you have.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I have a set of 4 Graham wind flags that I use for ARA Rimfire BR shooting. At 100 yds centerfire, never felt the need to break them out. Despite the convenient 8 minute trip to our shooting club for which I'm the rifle range coordinator, it only goes out to 100 yds. Mostly deer hunters sighting in for the upcoming season right now and some crazy guy who's constantly checking his brass with a mic.

1/4 moa. No wind flags. Hornady varmint bullets.

Yah. Total junk!! Awful!! Hahaha

Told you AR COMP worked!

(Just funnin)