6x45 Terrible ES numbers

[Marksman]

I'm looking for any help to get my 6x45 to shoot more consistency. On a whim I range some various loads over a chrony and the spreads were atrocious. Anyone have some sure fire ways to get my ES down?

 

[BenPerfected]

I'm looking for any help to get my 6x45 to shoot more consistency. On a whim I range some various loads over a chrony and the spreads were atrocious. Anyone have some sure fire ways to get my ES down?

Based on my experience, the odds are that your brass prep is inconsistent. What I did was to work with DJ's Brass Service. DJ ended up prepping all my brass and also doing the annealing. This included trimming, neck trueing, skimming or turning. DJ is a great coach and he can help you learn how to get consistency. You won't be dispointed and it will show on the target.

 

[Homerange]

I'm looking for any help to get my 6x45 to shoot more consistency. On a whim I range some various loads over a chrony and the spreads were atrocious. Anyone have some sure fire ways to get my ES down?

Pretty hard to say for sure unless you offer more info.
Handloading experience
Cases and case prep
Projectiles used
Powders used
Primers used

But in my experience case prep and case brand along with case fill % are basic key factors to get right first along with a powder appropriate for the calibre and bullet weight.
Time spent checking multiple reloading manuals will point you in the right direction.

 

[Marksman]

Pretty hard to say for sure unless you offer more info.
Handloading experience
Cases and case prep
Projectiles used
Powders used
Primers used

But in my experience case prep and case brand along with case fill % are basic key factors to get right first along with a powder appropriate for the caliber and bullet weight.
Time spent checking multiple reloading manuals will point you in the right direction.

A little more info:
I'd say from a handloading stance, intermediate to advanced.
Cases were new Winchester, necked up and fireformed. Then trimmed and chamfered. No neck turning at this point.
Various projectiles from 55gr to 85gr.
Various powders used.
Only Tula small rifle primers.

I've been looking at various reloading manuals for the best load density, but it doesn't seem to matter much.

I'm also using standard Redding 6x45 dies. I'm wondering if I need to play with the seater die and see if I can get a little crimp for more consistent ignition.

 

[Homerange]

My best ES loads are close to or compressed.
A recent thread suggested neck tension being both sufficient and consistent as factors that can affect ES.
For my loads when I started flash hole chamfering ES was lowered and based on info I've read it can be by something like 25% or more.

Was your fireforming dome with close to full power loads?

 

[Marksman]

Fireformed with standard loads.

I've never done flash hole chamfering before, but if it gets to that point I might.

 

[Homerange]

Fireformed with standard loads.

I've never done flash hole chamfering before, but if it gets to that point I might.

You've not indicated what ES spread you consider terrible ?

 

[Marksman]

ES 150, SD 90

 

[GrocMax]

ES 150, SD 90

Those numbers are extreme.

With what powder, bullet, and how much jump/jam? Have you tried another chrono? How about verifying scale? There's a problem somewhere. There's been batches of commercial Win 223 brass with lots of weight variation, weigh 10 cases.

Best performing primers for me weren't Tula SRM but ES 150 ain't the primer alone. 450's and 7 1/2's work well.

Don't expect single digit SD's, but 90 is out to a 6 martini lunch.

 

[jlow]

If this is Win .308 brass fire formed into a 6mm and you are not neck turning, you are in trouble because first the necks are likely to be way too thick and second, you likely have donuts. Those things will do terrible things to your neck tension and that will give you horrible ES and SD. I don’t think anyone can neck up the way you do and not neck turn, it's part of the process and you are skipping steps.

 

[GrocMax]

6x45. Simple 223 necked up to 6mm. SAAMI approval in 2011.

 

[Mike F H]

6x45. Simple 223 necked up to 6mm. SAAMI approval in 2011.

Change to a magnum primer,CCI 450 or CCI Br4,also consider firing spring tension.

 

[GrocMax]

To increase neck tension on the std Redding non-bushing dies you'll need to swap over to a smaller OD expander button or polish yours down a thou. The std Redding die the final neck size is determined by the button diameter. If the button has been removed because someone said 'buttons suck!' you have a very undersized OD case neck with WAY too much tension. If you want to remove the button you need to hone the die neck to the correct diameter.

 

[37Lincoln1]

I'm getting ES numbers in the 20's using 8208 XBR, 70 SMK, Lake City brass, Fed 205M in an AR-15, 18" BHW barrel. Brass is annealed.

In the teens using Hornady 75 V-Max. Forster dies. Hopes this helps you, it's a great round, very accurate and the VMax is deadly on coyotes.

 

[savagedasher]

Bad ES is normally from brass that the internal case capacity is different . Along with primers . Larry

 

[jlow]

Well it could b many things apart from brass capacity, primers. It could be your brass needs annealing having been neck up, there is also neck tension and of course if you are way off the accuracy node, ES/SD also suffers.

 

[John from MN]

Is this a bolt gun or an AR? First thing I would try would be some stout mil spec brass. Also, check for donuts if you're seating into the shoulder/neck junction.

 

[fredo]

What CHRONO were you using?

If shooting through screens:
What was the weather/lighting conditions like?
Did Sun/clouds/shade mess with the light source to the screens?
Were you shooting thru the center of the screens?
Have you checked the chrono battery lately?

IF a Magnetospeed:
Did you check between shots to confirm strap stayed tight?
Confirm that bayonet didn't slide down the barrel from recoil?

Just sayin', if I'm seein' wonky chrono #s, the first thing I do is confirm the chrono is functioning properly.
Then, move along to brass/ load recipe, etc...

 

[Marksman]

To get caught up a little...

This is a bolt action with a BHW barrel.

The brass is new manufacture Winchester, but I'm tempted to try something else.

I've tried 8208, H322, CFE 223. Next batch of testing will be with 4198 compressed loads with 55gr Btip and 70 Btip.

I checked the velocity over 2 diffrerent Chrony's over multiple range trips.

I have heard that the Redding expander can cause a loose neck.

 

[GrocMax]

8208, Benchmark, H322, CFE223 are a little slow for light bullets 55g-60g. Be careful with RL7 or Norma 200, you can get enough in the case to cause issues. H4198 is bulkier.

Do you have 6x45_loaddata_5_1.pdf?

What faster rifle powders do you have?