6x45 for xc

[mao0720]

Hello all,
New to the forum, been reading all I can on here for a while though and have learned a lot from you all. Did a search, but didnt find exactly waht I was looking for. Im am looking to start a new project and am looking at a few different options for caliber. I will be building on an AR15 platform. I was wondering how the 6x45 would stack up at the 600m line, say with middle weight 85-95 gr bullets? How will drop and wind drift be? Other cartridges Im looking at are 6.5 grendel and 6mmAR. I like the Idea of the 6x45 simply for ease of getting a barrel and loading for it. Any thoughts woulb be appreciated, thanks guys!

 

[Rtheurer]

You want to build a NRA XTC rifle in 6mm? Just save your time and go to the 6mm Hagar which hornady is now making brass and get an upper and dies from White oak and roll with it. No messin around with trying to find 6X45 dies and some one to chamber that odd ball in a AR platform or any of that.

I went with the grendel version last year and it shoots lights out. No regrets. I didnt even consider the 6X45 even though I have thousands of 223 brass. Illkeep those for my 223 Space gun and Service rifle.

Check out the HAGAR.

RussT

 

[mao0720]

Did you do 6.5 grendel or the necked down 6mm? It looks to me that you cannot load even the 87-95 gr bullets into the 6mm Hagar at mag length. Hard to find dimentions on the hagar as well. Is it parented off of the 6.8 spc?

 

[Chuckw]

I have built a number of 6TCU rifles in different configurations. Right now we are running the 95mk at 2900fps comfortably out of 21" barrels. It will come pretty close to keeping up with the 6br but uses much cheaper and readily available brass!

Chuck

 

[mao0720]

Thats pretty impressive for that small of a case. What is your case capacity compared to a straight 6x45?

 

[Rtheurer]

Did you do 6.5 grendel or the necked down 6mm? It looks to me that you cannot load even the 87-95 gr bullets into the 6mm Hagar at mag length. Hard to find dimentions on the hagar as well. Is it parented off of the 6.8 spc?

I went with 6mm FAT RAT which almost the same thing as Roberts 6mmAR turbo based off the 6.5MM Grendal case. Pretty much a 6ppc improved any way you look at it.

Well I know that Carl Bernowsky has won several National Championships with the HAGAR now. Cant be too bad of a cartridge. Plus Builders of XTC AR rifles are chambering them up and have all the gas system and pressure curves figured out to make the the rifle function correctly.... Thats the big one in my book. I li,e to tinker as much as the next fella but not in a match rifle gas gun that needs to function EVERY time i do the Rapid fire stages.
You are correct the HAGAR is based off the 6.8 case.

Chuck is this 6TCU in an AR platform used in NRA XTC matches?


Hold center
RussT

 

[Cody Richardson]

If you don't mind a bolt gun, why not run a Tubegun is 6BR or 6XC? With the 6xc you can shoot XTC and LR. I shot a 6BR in XTC and loved it.

 

[mao0720]

I definately dont mind bolt guns at all, however I am far more familiar with the AR platform. I can do all the work myself on an AR, which is more than I can say for a bolt gun. I plan on just building a new upper to go on one of my current lowers, for this project. I love the concept of the 6xc and was very close to building one on a tube gun for my last project. I ended up build a 260 Rem on an LR 308 platform, turned out very well. Shoots 130gr Berger VLD's at 2825 fps and into little bugholes at 100m.

 

[rcw3]

Did you do 6.5 grendel or the necked down 6mm? It looks to me that you cannot load even the 87-95 gr bullets into the 6mm Hagar at mag length. Hard to find dimentions on the hagar as well. Is it parented off of the 6.8 spc?

. . . .

You are correct the HAGAR is based off the 6.8 case.

. . . .

Hold center
RussT

Hi Russ

Need a slight correction here. Both the HAGAR and the 6.8 SPC are based off the 30 Rem case, but you cannot use the 6.8 SPC to make a HAGAR (brass is way too short).

Robert

 

[Rtheurer]

Thanks Robert... I was hoping you would hop in. I have no experience with the HAGAR and was hoping some one would help out on that part of the post. Can you give the OP a little info on the new 95gr Hunting Hybrid Classic in the HAGAR at Mag length as well.

RussT

 

[Chuckw]

I have no idea about running the tcu in an AR. Everything I have built have been on short Remington's and custom clones. I think it's the best you can do on a small bolt face receiver.

Chuck

 

[5spd]

I shoot the 6x45 on a Savage action. Like the AR platform you can build it at home.
I have no experiance with the other loadings.
Barrels/dies are easy to come by as just about every MFG has the reamer.
In an AR15 it can be had from BHW/Dtech & many more builders.
I shoot mine to 700 yards and built if specifically for coyote & antelope out here.
I shoot the 65g vmax/85 sgkhp/95 nosler HBT.
All are sub moa @ 100yds to 400 yds in my gun, my best 700 yard was 5.5" so still under moa.
Wind drift depends on wind of course and its to 40+ mph out here, course I dont hunt in that though.
The 85g drops about 92" @ 600 yards & about 39" drift in a 10mph crosswind.
In a 26mph crosswind 2 weeks back at 700 yards with the 65g load I was holding about 12' into the wind and still hit my plate, although it was an 11" group it was still a dead coyote to me.
I would not use it past 400 yards on a deer/antelope though, but it will drop a coyote at 600 with no issue.

 

[Chuckw]

I shot a whitetail and Mulie this year with the 95mk out of the tcu along with a few coyotes. I am not impressed with that bulletin on game at all. I intend to try the 105 Amax as ASAP.

Chuck

 

[alf]

I have built a number of 6TCU rifles in different configurations. Right now we are running the 95mk at 2900fps comfortably out of 21" barrels.

I think it's the best you can do on a small bolt face receiver.

I think a 6mm-204 is worthy of a looksie......

Another .100" of capacity and no fireforming.

 

[Chuckw]

Would you gain anything from a 204 case versus an improved 223 case......probably not. Can you use quality, readily available, and super cheap brass to form the 204 case??? NO! I will stand by my opinion that the tcu is as good as it gets on a small bolt face receiver.

Chuck

 

[alf]

I never said it was better, just it deserved a look.

It does have almost a grain capacity advantage over the Ackley case.

Quality brass and cheap brass don't fit in the same sentence.

And again, the best part, is no fireforming....neck up and go.

I'm not discounting your opinion, just adding another viable option.......

 

[KevinThomas]

mao0720,

Very poor choice here. The 6x45 is a great cartridge, and I've had several over the years (including an AR that I built for just this purpose). Still have an M70 that was built as a varminter in the cartridge. However, the 223 offers much better LR performance, now that the heavy match bullets are on the scene. When I built my AR, the 69 SMK was the heaviest 22 on the market, and I was looking to the 6mm to make use of heavier, higher BC projectiles for the 600 yard line. Very easy cartridge to work with, and a good performer, but whent he heavy 22 match bullets made their appearance, the 6mm lost all the advantages it previously had.

Great little cartridge, and I wouldn't dissuade you from building one, just not for this application. The guys are right; look at one of the larger 6mm cartridges if you want an XC gun. If you're looking for a mild mannered, accurate and easy to work with varmint round, the 6x45 is a fine choice.

 

[mao0720]

Kevin,
Is there a decent mag length lpad with the heavier bullets? Maybe with a 77 or 80gr bullet, or am I limited to single loading for the long line?

 

[KevinThomas]

Well, basically, any bullet that has about a 7-caliber ogive can be magazine fed. That is, the head (ogive from bearing surface to meplat) of the bullet measures no more than .500" for proectiles intended for the 223. With a case length of 1.750" and an OAL of 2.250" (give or take .010"), there's .500" of he bullet that can be exposed from the case mouth to the tips touching the front of the mag. Most of the 80 grain and above bullets exceed this, and therefore must be single loaded. Most of the 77 grain (and under) bullets don't, and can be loaded at 2.260" or under, and feed from the mag.

Not to be biased right here, but I believe our 77 grain Scenar has the highest BC of any of the mag length projectiles out right now. They're completely competitive (and can even beat) several of the popular 80s, like the 80 SMK which has to be single-loaded; it (as I mentioned) was never designed to work through a mag. If you want to go with the 223/5.56 platform, the Scenar is the one that will most likely give you the best results.

Not sure if you're into XC competiton yet, but the 600 yard stage REQUIRES that the rounds be single loaded. You're forbidden to load the mag, and the rifle must be fed one round at a time. This is what convinced Sierra to go with the long ogive design. Loading these well past SAAMI OAL limits simply wasn't a factor, considering the venue in which the bullet was intended to be used. Regardless, the Scenar offers a ballistically superior option, and simplfies the need to carry two different types of ammo (short range or rapids, and long-loded rounds for the 600). Any chance to remove Murphy from the line is always a good option in my book, and this is one of those times.

Good luck with the project, and we'll see you on the line at Perry!

 

[mao0720]

Thanks kevin. Im not shooting XC yet, but would like to be within the next 6 months. I was unaware that you MUST single load at the 600m line. But, I like the idea of having one load for all distances. Ill have to check out the 77 gr scenars. Does anyone know if the 75gr Berger VLD will fit mag length and be in the same zip code as the lands?