6ppc with heavy bullets

[6BRAckley]

I have an 8 twist Krieger 6mm blank that I'm considering chambering up in 6ppc to shoot the heavier bullets. Has anyone tried this before? If so, what were your results? Could I expect around 2800 fps with the 105-108 weight bullets?

I'm all tooled up for the 6ppc,reamer, plenty of new 220 russian brass, dies, etc). I do have 100 new rounds of 6mmbr Norma brass but I would need to get a reamer and new dies if I end up going that route.

My goal will be to shoot this at 600 yr matches.

I'm interested in any feedback you'all can provide.

thanks in advance,
JP

 

[rayjay]

Go to the home page and check out the week 39 on the Gun Of the Week.

 

[EdwinD]

Jason,

study and/or read, PPC can not compete with the BR at the 600 yard range.

 

[SHall]

Jason,
I definitely believe the PPC would be competitive at 600 yards. If you will look at the Piedmont NC results this month,600 yard IBS). Larry Isenhour has been kicking butt,including mine) with a 6 mm Grendel,necked down 6.5 Grendel). It has a PPC boltface and is only .o50 longer than a PPC case. It holds about 1.5 grains more powder than the PPC. You can acually use the 220 Russian case in the Grendel after fireforming, it's neck will be just a little shorter than the Grendel case. I am set up for a 6BR, but if I were not I would seriouly look at doing what you are doing or going with the 6 Grendel. You would not have to alter your PPC bolt face. This is a great way for short range guys to shoot some 600 yard competition. Just screw on a 1-8 twist barrel on there PPC and "go to town".
Samuel Hall in NC

 

[Cheechako]

Jason,

study and/or read, PPC can not compete with the BR at the 600 yard range.

Edwin

Hmmmmmm. Where have you been? It can. It has.

JP

Yes you can get 2800 with the 105-107 gr bullets. You can get 3000 with 95 gr bullets. But you need a long throat to seat those bullets out as far as you can.

But I have had the best luck with lighter bullets in a slower twist. 71 gr Berger in a 12 twist at 3385 fps is as accurate as any point blank load. But unless you are an experienced BR shooter you will be at a disadvantage in any but the best conditions.

Ray

 

[6BRAckley]

Ray,

What powder have you or others used with the 95gr bullets? How about the 105-107s?

I will have to buy a separate throater since my current reamer cut a .050 or .060 throat.

JP

 

[Cheechako]

JP

I can only speak for myself here, but the powders I have found that work best are in the burning range of H4895. If you like ball powder, W748 works. You didn't hear this from me but a charge around 28 grains +/- seems to be about right. Only a good chronograph will give you the real story.

I throated my chamber so that the base of a 95 gr BIB does not extend down past the shoulder. If you go to BR Central Forums and search around you'll find some threads by the guys who have shot the heavier bullets more than I have. rhaney2 is one guy.

For the 71 grain bullets I use my short-range BR loads and N 133.

Ray

 

[EdwinD]

Ray,

I do not want to get into a pissing contest, however I read results at Piedmont and Sacremento, and PPC is NOT winning at 600 yards.

 

[Cheechako]

Edwin

You need to go back to the first NBRSA 600 Yard Nationals, 2004.
HG small group - 3.3650", First Place,the first World record)
LG small group - 2.1120", Second place.
HG high score - 98, Fifth place.
LG 6 Target Score, Fourth Place
LG 6 Target Group, Sixth place.
Two Gun 12 target Score, Fifth Place
Two Gun 12 Target Group, Sixth Place

Second year NBRSA 600 Yard Nationals, 2005.
LG 6 Target Score, First Place.
LG 6 target Group, Second Place.
HG 6 Target Group, Fifth Place
Two Gun 12 Target Group, Third Place.
LG 3 Target Score, 50-50-49.

I still have the targets and the World Record Certificate.

Ray

 

[EdwinD]

Ray,

with all due respect, this is NOT 2004 or 2005!

 

[rstreich]

Edwin, I think they had 6BRs in 2004 and 2005.

Sorry, Ray. I just couldn't resist.

 

[EdwinD]

rstreich,

they have PPC's TODAY!

Take yours and go to PIEDMONT or SACREMENTO, and shoot 600 yards with the "big boys".

 

[La_man]

I believe Ray fairly and correctly stated it, 6PPC's can and have one at 600 on the Natl. Level but under less than ideal conditons it is not the best cartridge. I personally am making up a 6PPC on 10 twist hoping to shoot the 88 gr. Berger. for local 500 meter claybird matches.

 

[Cheechako]

rstreich,

they have PPC's TODAY!

Take yours and go to PIEDMONT or SACREMENTO, and shoot 600 yards with the "big boys".

Edwin

The results that I posted were shot at Sacramento against the big boys.

Originally you said that the PPC cannot compete with the 6BR, but it seems that now you're saying that unless it wins every match, every year, you've proved your point.

Do you think that the 6BR can compete against the big 30 caliber magnums at 1000 yards? Can the 22 Waldog compete against the 6PPC at 100 yards? Can the 308W compete against the 30 BR at score? Huh?

Ray

 

[EdwinD]

Ray,

6BR wildcats,,6BRX, 6 Dasher, and 6 Coyote), DO compete at 1,000 yards against 30 caliber.

AND they 6Br wildcats ARE winning at 1,000 yards.

No history here!

Again, take your PPC to a 600 or 1,000 yard match at Piedmont or Sacremento.

The end

 

[Cheechako]

Ray, 6BR wildcats,,6BRX, 6 Dasher, and 6 Coyote), DO compete at 1,000 yards against 30 caliber. AND they 6Br wildcats ARE winning at 1,000 yards. No history here! Again, take your PPC to a 600 or 1,000 yard match at Piedmont or Sacremento. The end

Edwin

Although I'm sure you didn't intend to, you've made my point. Yes, the BR and its clones can compete with the boomers at 1000 yards. Do they win every time? Of course not. Can the 6PPC compete at 600 yards? Of course it can. Does it win every time? Of course not.

You seemed obsessed with Piedmont and Sacramento. Which one of those do you shoot? I shoot every year at Sacramento. Have we met? I will probably be at Sacramento again for this year's Nationals. Will I see you there? You can't miss me. I'll be the guy with the pretty blue 6PPC. You wanna shoot for money? I'll shoot my PPC against any rifle you want to bring.

Ray

 

[JERRYHM]

Hi Ray,
I would like to shoot my 6PPC,like) at Sacramento in the April Nationals, but I'm not sure they would let me. It is a 6MMAR, 6.5 Grendel necked to 6MM ), no way to remove the bolt after the string! The last 600 yard match at Coalinga the first 10 shots were in the X ring so the group for 10 shots was in the 3 to 4 inch range for iron sights in the prone position. Do you think it would be a smaller group with scope and bench rest?
Jerry

 

[Cheechako]

Jerry

I think you already have enough advantage without shooting a PPC or Grendel.

I know that those tiny cartridges will shoot 600 yards in good conditions. So I'm bringing mine just in case I get one of those "Stu Harvey" benches and conditions that we all dream about.

But I'll be bringing a second rifle with bigger bullets, just in case.

I'm sure Ed would let you use a chamber safety flag. But on second thought, maybe we should all protest and make you remove the bolt.

See you in a month.

Ray

 

[billmo]

Hi Ray,
I would like to shoot my 6PPC,like) at Sacramento in the April Nationals, but I'm not sure they would let me. It is a 6MMAR, 6.5 Grendel necked to 6MM ), no way to remove the bolt after the string! The last 600 yard match at Coalinga the first 10 shots were in the X ring so the group for 10 shots was in the 3 to 4 inch range for iron sights in the prone position. Do you think it would be a smaller group with scope and bench rest?
Jerry

Jerry, I have one of those rifles also. Could you share your load data for the 600 yd. shooting that you were talking about. I have only had minimal long distance bench time with my rifle because we lost our spot but I was having no problem taking out pop bottles filled with water at 500 and 600 yds. before losing the shooting spot. Thanks, Bill

 

[JERRYHM]

Bill,
I using the Berger 105 vlds with 28.5 grains of RE15 for 600 yards.

6MMAR ---------- July 02, 2007 6.5mm Grindel necked down to 6mm.

Head Space using,B) tool NEW = 1.205” FIRED = 1.212 T0 1.216” RESIZED TO = 1.210”
Not sure how good the HS measurements are using a Stony Point tool.

CASE LENGTH = 1.514” MAX. L = 1.525”
Case weight is about 111 grains.

Bullet OAL to touch the lands is --- SR OAL --- LR OAL --- LOAD ------------ SEATER
Hornday 87 gr. --------- 2.179” --- 2.160” --- -------- --- 27.5 --- H4895 –,-140)
Berger 90 gr. BTs ----- 2.246” --- 2.230” --- -------- --- same --------------,-90)
Berger 95 gr. BTs ----- 2.299” --- 2.250” --- -------- --- same --------------
Berger 95 gr. VLD ---- 2.323” --- 2.250” --- -------- --- same --------------,-160)
Berger 105 gr. VLD--- 2.318” --- 2.250” --- 2.330” --- 28.5 --- RE 15 --
Sierra 107 gr. ---------- 2.315” --- 2.250” --- 2.300” --- 27.5 --- H4895 – HOT LOAD need to drop ½ grain
Berger 108 gr. BTs --- 2.290” --- 2.250” --- 2.270” --- 27.0---- H4895

Maximum OAL to fit in the Magazines is 2.250”

Neck size is loaded = 0.270”, Fired is = 0.273”, resized is = 0.2675”

200 – 300 yard Loads
Berger 90 gr. BTs Good for both OH and Rapids
Hornady 87 gr. Use for OH only

600 yard loads
Berger 105 VLD