6PPC - I'd like to try the sweet spot above 29 gr of N133

[ShtrRdy]

I've been running my 6PPC in short range benchrest with 28.5 to 29.2 grain of N133 behind a 65 to 68 grain bullet and i would like to try the sweet spot that's hotter than this. I'm concerned that I'm going to mess something up though.

Can you describe how I should go about this safely? I've been seating the bullet at 0.005" to 0.010" jam . I read where others are using 0.020" jam.

 

[Clancy]

What brand of brass and especially what action?

 

[Link]

I've been running my 6PPC in short range benchrest with 28.5 to 29.2 grain of N133 behind a 65 to 68 grain bullet and i would like to try the sweet spot that's hotter than this. I'm concerned that I'm going to mess something up though.

Can you describe how I should go about this safely? I've been seating the bullet at 0.005" to 0.010" jam . I read where others are using 0.020" jam.

tag

 

[Boilermaker]

Can you describe how I should go about this safely?

Load more powder in the case

If you are using a custom action, I would not be concerned starting at 29.6 gr of N133. From there you might want to load up .2 gr at a time and check bolt lift and primers. I have gone to 30.4 in my action with no issues. I know there are people who load hotter than that, but with my combination it gets difficult to get enough powder in the case and keep seating depths consistent.

If you are using Norma brass, the primer pockets will not last long at the high node. I got about 6 firings out of mine with a load of 30.2 gr N133 before they were trash.

I would start with the seating depth you’re currently using. Once you find the high node you might try testing depths to see if you can make it shoot better. I am typically around .004”-.006” in the lands with my rifles.

On a final note, 28.5-29.2 gr N133 can shoot very well. If the wind is not blowing terrible, you might not gain anything by pushing the rifle harder. I preloaded for my last match with 29.1 gr. I was very pleased with how the rifle shot. It may have done better if I could have fine tuned the powder charge, but I don’t think I gave up any points by not shooting the high node.

 

[M-61]

would like to try the sweet spot that's hotter than this.

Why? How are your groups now?

 

[ShtrRdy]

I'll answer the questions that came up.

Lapua brass
BAT DS action.
Current groups are mid 1's to mid 2's

I'd like to be high 0's to mid 1's.

 

[Ccrider]

Increasing powder charge is not going to make you shoot smaller.

 

[Chris Mackey]

I’m not an expert, but shooting a “a 65 to 68 grain,” will not get you anywhere. You need to pick a bullet, and shoot one bullet, one powder, and learn it.
The guys that I admire, that shoot amazing when no one else can, have shot the same exact thing for decades, they make it look easy.
I won an envelope of money at last Super Shoot at Kelbly’s shooting 31.2 grains, but that didn’t work the next day, but it worked that day, which is what mattered.
My opinion means nothing to anyone else, but I now only listen to my targets and not a bunch of other noise. I recommend spending time and effort and prove your own test results. Every barrel is different, every reamer is different, and every range is different.

 

[Ccrider]

I’m not an expert, but shooting a “a 65 to 68 grain,” will not get you anywhere. You need to pick a bullet, and shoot one bullet, one powder, and learn it.
The guys that I admire, that shoot amazing when no one else can, have shot the same exact thing for decades, they make it look easy.
I won an envelope of money at last Super Shoot at Kelbly’s shooting 31.2 grains, but that didn’t work the next day, but it worked that day, which is what mattered.
My opinion means nothing to anyone else, but I now only listen to my targets and not a bunch of other noise. I recommend spending time and effort and prove your own test results. Every barrel is different, every reamer is different, and every range is different.

Chris is more generous with words. Increasing powder charge is not going to make you shoot smaller.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Like Chris and Charles are saying don’t get hung up or make the mistake in thinking you can shoot better or smaller at a hotter load.
BUT! Like Chris said on that day it may be the right place to be

I shoot a lot of group and score and still load at the range I’m not smart enough to pre load
Some days 30.4 is a hammer some days it’s spitting shots everywhere and 29.7 is hammering

You do need to learn a particular bullet. If I had to preload it would be 30 grains

 

[J_idaho]

Benchrest shooters must keep good log books of conditions and group relationships. Tough sport

 

[Bronsin]

29.4, 29.8, and 30.2 are all worth trying.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I’m not an expert, but shooting a “a 65 to 68 grain,” will not get you anywhere. You need to pick a bullet, and shoot one bullet, one powder, and learn it.
The guys that I admire, that shoot amazing when no one else can, have shot the same exact thing for decades, they make it look easy.
I won an envelope of money at last Super Shoot at Kelbly’s shooting 31.2 grains, but that didn’t work the next day, but it worked that day, which is what mattered.
My opinion means nothing to anyone else, but I now only listen to my targets and not a bunch of other noise. I recommend spending time and effort and prove your own test results. Every barrel is different, every reamer is different, and every range is different.

I've been using 65 grain bullet for a while now.

 

[CubCouper]

The trick to shooting N133 is to understand that you HAVE to constantly pay attention to your targets and the environmental and make adjustments if you want to it to shoot small.

Here's the scenario I've seen a thousand times.... a normal, average shooter with decent equipment tunes on Friday and starts the yardage Sat morning with in first place with a .130. He knows his tune is perfect. Second group is a .105 and he is smiling to himself, way ahead of the pack. By 10:45 the temp has come up about 10-15 degrees from where the day started, but the gun is so perfect. Third group has 4 shots in another .110, but the last shot blew it out to a .345. Still in 4th place, must have missed a condition... the load is perfect. Around 11:15 he shoots the 4th group and temp has only come up a few more degrees. ARGH - .405 - none of the bullets touch. Did the scope break? Middle of the pack again. Damn. Change the powder, up, down, doesn't matter, next group is a .290, and he finishes in 11th with a .255 agg.

After this happened to me (about 100 times!), I finally studied why it wasn't happening to those top-10 guys. The general advice boils down to this... change BEFORE the load blows up.

Change your powder, your seating depth, your tuner, your charge weight, change something! That tiny .105 is sending you a message that in 3-5 more degrees it will be a 4-and-1 or 3-and-2. Ignore that and a 5-of-diamonds is only 3-5 more degrees away.

When I was shooting 133, I could have preloaded for the whole season - shot 28.7 and never touched the seating die. But I adjusted my tuner just a smidge nearly every target. 1-1/4 thou per degree of temp change did a really good job of eliminating those big threes and fours.

P.S. Now I'm shooting LT31... the load and seating depth hasn't changed in 12,000 rounds. Still tweak the tuner just a smidge if the day gets hot to keep it honest.

 

[SGT. Slaughter]

The trick to shooting N133 is to understand that you HAVE to constantly pay attention to your targets and the environmental and make adjustments if you want to it to shoot small.

Here's the scenario I've seen a thousand times.... a normal, average shooter with decent equipment tunes on Friday and starts the yardage Sat morning with in first place with a .130. He knows his tune is perfect. Second group is a .105 and he is smiling to himself, way ahead of the pack. By 10:45 the temp has come up about 10-15 degrees from where the day started, but the gun is so perfect. Third group has 4 shots in another .110, but the last shot blew it out to a .345. Still in 4th place, must have missed a condition... the load is perfect. Around 11:15 he shoots the 4th group and temp has only come up a few more degrees. ARGH - .405 - none of the bullets touch. Did the scope break? Middle of the pack again. Damn. Change the powder, up, down, doesn't matter, next group is a .290, and he finishes in 11th with a .255 agg.

After this happened to me (about 100 times!), I finally studied why it wasn't happening to those top-10 guys. The general advice boils down to this... change BEFORE the load blows up.

Change your powder, your seating depth, your tuner, your charge weight, change something! That tiny .105 is sending you a message that in 3-5 more degrees it will be a 4-and-1 or 3-and-2. Ignore that and a 5-of-diamonds is only 3-5 more degrees away.

When I was shooting 133, I could have preloaded for the whole season - shot 28.7 and never touched the seating die. But I adjusted my tuner just a smidge nearly every target. 1-1/4 thou per degree of temp change did a really good job of eliminating those big threes and fours.

P.S. Now I'm shooting LT31... the load and seating depth hasn't changed in 12,000 rounds. Still tweak the tuner just a smidge if the day gets hot to keep it honest.

Is LT 32 as sensitive as N133 or does it depend on what part of the country you live in? I live in the southeast Georgia to be exact. Your experience will be greatly appreciated. Thank you Sir.

 

[Lkwebb]

I'll answer the questions that came up.

Lapua brass
BAT DS action.
Current groups are mid 1's to mid 2's

I'd like to be high 0's to mid 1's.

IMO if your goin to shoot hot loads get rid of lapua brass and gets some ALPHA brass it will hold up better . you can thank me later

 

[CubCouper]

Is LT 32 as sensitive as N133 or does it depend on what part of the country you live in? I live in the southeast Georgia to be exact. Your experience will be greatly appreciated. Thank you Sir.

I shoot a 50/50 blend of LT 32 and LT 30... hence LT31. Most of my shooting is Rocky Mountain ranges - above 3000'-4000' elevation. I have had good luck with it in St Louis and Phoenix, but won't pretend to predict how it would work back East. All I would commit to is that it has a different pressure profile than 133. While I've shot many 0's and teen aggs with it, I characterize the difference as 133 is easier to shoot smaller, but it takes a lot more effort to stay on top of it. It's harder to get groups below .150 with LT31, but when it blows up its a .280, not a .400.

 

[jackieschmidt]

You might be surprised at the number of very good shooters who shoot 30.2 to 30.4 grns of 133 on a consistent basis.

 

[JMayo]

30.1 n133 here. Barts 68 gr Avenger.
I shot 4 of 5 x's on one target at 300 meters today with it.
1700 rounds on this barrel.

 

[SGT. Slaughter]

30.1 n133 here. Barts 68 gr Avenger.
I shot 4 of 5 x's on one target at 300 meters today with it.
1700 rounds on this barrel.

Have you ever had the barrel set back an if not, have you checked the throat erosion now compared to when it was first chambered. Just wondering my reamer has .040 freebore I was just curious to see when the avengers start to see little bearing surface in the case neck after 1700 rds. Thanks.