6ppc cases scratched after sizing

[Stosh123]

How much does the die reduce the diameters of a fired case at the shoulder and just above the extractor groove, at the end of the die's sizing reach?

Boyd, I haven’t fired any of the new brass yet because I’d like to correct the scratching issue before loading and firing them.
The #14 post shows a sketch comparison between the new, unsized brass and the full length sized scratched brass. Any comments? Later

 

[BoydAllen]

Boyd, I haven’t fired any of the new brass yet because I’d like to correct the scratching issue before loading and firing them.
The #14 post shows a sketch comparison between the new, unsized brass and the full length sized scratched brass. Any comments? Later

Of course I could not actually see a scratch in the picture because of the shadows, but looking at the drawing I see that the new case was larger at the shoulder than any reamer print that I am familiar with, and find this unusual. If the unsized new bras will go into the chamber all the way with no resistance, I suspect a measuring error. The brass is already scratched. What would be the problem with firing (and not resizing) a few to compare dimensions with the new and new sized?

 

[Uncle Ed]

I use shotgun cleaning mops that are a snug fit inside the die and use J&B bore paste, Flitz, automotive rubbing compound etc to polish my dies. Just attach the mop to a drill and move the mop in and out of the die. I also dissemble my full length dies and place the die body in my vibratory tumbler with treated walnut media and tumble overnight.

If brass had become embedded inside the die you may need a good strong bore solvent to remove the brass.

Below brass sticking to a new neck bushing and once any brass starts to stick it just keeps building up.

And any bore solvent that curls your nose hairs and makes your eyes water if you sniff it will remove the brass.

 

[Stosh123]

Of course I could not actually see a scratch in the picture because of the shadows, but looking at the drawing I see that the new case was larger at the shoulder than any reamer print that I am familiar with, and find this unusual. If the unsized new bras will go into the chamber all the way with no resistance, I suspect a measuring error. The brass is already scratched. What would be the problem with firing (and not resizing) a few to compare dimensions with the new and new sized?

Could be a measuring error, Boyd. I’ll check the numbers again. It still bothers me that the brand new brass coming out of the full length Wilson sizing die. Hopefully when I get the die back from Wilson, scratches will be gone.
Boyd, do you always full length resize? I don’t know where I got it but thought most people neck size only. Maybe thinking has changed over the years.

 

[BoydAllen]

Could be a measuring error, Boyd. I’ll check the numbers again. It still bothers me that the brand new brass coming out of the full length Wilson sizing die. Hopefully when I get the die back from Wilson, scratches will be gone.
Boyd, do you always full length resize? I don’t know where I got it but thought most people neck size only. Maybe thinking has changed over the years.

I pretty much always FL size, unless trying to produce a tight case for sending off with a custom die order. Everyone that I know of in competitive short range benchrest group shooting FL sizes, and I am pretty sure it is that way in the rest of the shooting sports. It has been this way for a looong time.

IMO the old FL vs. neck sizing discussions were all based on one piece factory FL dies, which are very different from today's custom dies. Custom dies barely change the diameters of case bodies. We set up our dies to only slightly bump shoulders back from what a tight case measures, and bushings allow us to retain the option of using an expander without making cases crooked, or with neck turned brass not use one. Recently, I have been enjoying working with a long time shooter near the east coast (I live in California) for all the time that he has been shooting he was not aware of tools like the what Hornady calls their headspace gauge, (really a shoulder to head dimension comparitor). A lot of fellows that I know have never measured fired cases before and after sizing to determine just exactly how much their dies are changing the dimensions of their cases. The good news is that with a good set of measuring tools, and top grade dies your ammunition will be better than before you had these things.

 

[JFrank]

Try measuring this direction as well.

 

[Stosh123]

Try measuring this direction as well.

SPJ, hadn’t even considered measuring the case that way. I’ll check it out this evening when I go out there. Seems like when I get into the actual measuring, 5 attempts gives me 5 results. Thank you for the tip.
Does anyone have an idea what the angle of taper is along the length of a 6ppc case is? I then would be able to calculate the shoulder dimension. Maybe I’m beating a dead horse!!!

 

[BoydAllen]

SPJ, hadn’t even considered measuring the case that way. I’ll check it out this evening when I go out there. Seems like when I get into the actual measuring, 5 attempts gives me 5 results. Thank you for the tip.
Does anyone have an idea what the angle of taper is along the length of a 6ppc case is? I then would be able to calculate the shoulder dimension. Maybe I’m beating a dead horse!!!

I use the tips of the caliper jaws for measuring case shoulder diameters. For the measurement above the extractor groove, I use the middle of the jaw. For the shoulders, practice will make you better. Work with it for a little while, and before you get frustrated, put it away, and then come back to it later.

 

[Tim s]

SPJ, hadn’t even considered measuring the case that way. I’ll check it out this evening when I go out there. Seems like when I get into the actual measuring, 5 attempts gives me 5 results. Thank you for the tip.
Does anyone have an idea what the angle of taper is along the length of a 6ppc case is? I then would be able to calculate the shoulder dimension. Maybe I’m beating a dead horse!!!

You want the absolute bullet proof way the measure and adjust the bump on your die, get yourself an Accu Guage offered by Chuck @6mmPPC.COM.
For PPC shooters, particularly with more than one gun, this thing is idiot proof.
Simply drop case in aluminum insert and slide die body with dial indicator over it....perfect.
It is surprising how many guys think they bump .001”-.0015” without a rel good way to measure.
Easiest method to check bump I have ever seen.

 

[GNERGY]

New Lapua brass has something on it from when it is made or annealed. This topic has been covered before. I had the same problem with new Lapua brass in 308 and 6.5x47 Lapua. I take a fine piece of scotchbrite or steel wool and give the brass a couple turns by hand, then wipe them off. You will not have any more scratches in your cases or die.
Tarey
I just took some 800 emery paper on a wooden dowel running slow in a drill under some running water and cleaned my dies up.

 

[rsmithsr50]

hummmmm
new 6ppc brass from lapua
something does not sound right
love to hear what Wilson says

 

[Stosh123]

I'll post what Wilson says why i'm getting the scratches.

 

[rsmithsr50]

thanks...keeping an eye on this thread

 

[Sandstorm]

I fireform all my Lapua brass before resizing anything and only Mandrel the necks with 21st Century
stuff to round them out as they all seem real tight on my 6.5x47 Brass anyhow from the factory.

 

[Stosh123]

thanks...keeping an eye on this thread

Got my full length die back from Wilson today. I had sent them the die, 2 sized cases that had scratches, and 2 new cases that had not been in the sizer. Wilson said “they opened up body of die to fit cases”. They also sent back the unsized cases that were subsequently full length sized and they are scratch free. Will see tomorrow if the sized cases will chamber. Surely it wasn’t opened up too much so that they won’t chamber. Please stay tuned for the verdict.

 

[Stosh123]

Got my full length die back from Wilson today. I had sent them the die, 2 sized cases that had scratches, and 2 new cases that had not been in the sizer. Wilson said “they opened up body of die to fit cases”. They also sent back the unsized cases that were subsequently full length sized and they are scratch free. Will see tomorrow if the sized cases will chamber. Surely it wasn’t opened up too much so that they won’t chamber. Please stay tuned for the verdict.

The cases that Wilson sized after “opening” up the sizer, chambered easily. In fact the bolt fell closed without my hand touching the bolt. Need to fire form a few and resize to see how they fit after firing.

 

[Stosh123]

The cases that Wilson sized after “opening” up the sizer, chambered easily. In fact the bolt fell closed without my hand touching the bolt. Need to fire form a few and resize to see how they fit after firing.

Any danger in that the cases are too small?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Any danger in that the cases are too small?

Not as long as they will go off

 

[Link]

Any danger in that the cases are too small?

If they polished your die it made it a RCH larger. Making your round larger not smaller. Right?
Don

 

[Stosh123]

Don, yes opening up the die would make the case larger in diameter, but why now when the case is placed in the chamber the bolt handle falls completely closed without any assistance.
Think I’ve beaten this dead horse enough and I’ll go ahead and load 5 rounds and fire them. I will wear additional protective eyeware however.
Thanks to all that have responded.