6mmXC and Reloader 16

[STOMP442]

I was unable to find any hard data for this combo but I wanted to give it go. It seemed to work really well so I wanted to post up my results here. I just finished up my latest 6mmXC build for a Client/ Buddy of mine. He started with a factory Remington in .22-250 that I trued up and added a PTG recoil lug. He also decided to go with a 24" Carbon SIX carbon fiber barrel. This is my first time messing with a Carbon Six barrel and I have to say I am very pleased with how it shot. I broke it in with 20 rounds loaded with 39gr of H4350 and a 95gr Tipped Match King that shot a 20 round group under an inch through the shoot and clean process. This barrel honestly cleaned up better than any other barrel I have used, very little fouling at all. After break in, I moved to some 105gr Berger Hybrids and Reloader 16. I started at 38.0gr and worked my way up to 39.5 in half grain increments. 39.5gr showed some slight flattening of primers so I stopped there. Bolt lift was still easy and primer pockets still good and tight so there is probably a little room to push harder if I wanted to. My start load actually proved to be the most accurate but the biggest five shot group of the day only measured .357". The 6mmXC continues to impress me and I now have components on the way to build one for myself.

Rifle Specs:
Remington 700 (trued)
Carbon Six 24" Sendero Contour
Ross Schuler 3 port brake
HS Precision Tactical Stock (PST035) skim bedded
Burris extreme bases and Burris high Signature Zee rings
Nightforce SHV 5-20x56
Norma brass
CCI LR #200
total weight = 9.25lbs

 

[spife7980]

I worked mine up recently: 7.5 twist With a 105 rdf I fire formed the norma brass with the 39 gr load to form my 200 pieces with as thats what looked best in an initial ladder from 38-40 but I dont remember encountering any heavy bolt loft or pressure indicators at 40 gr. OCWd to narrow it down with the fireformed brass which sent me to 39.8 gr and with average velocity of 3079 fps. Thats 85 fps faster than my H4350 load and has me a bit concerned with that aspect despite not showing any pressure signs. Im going to run another test to see how much of a buffer I have above 40 gr before pressure signs. If I still have plenty of room I may switch to RL16 full on from my H4350 recipe. I might also do some of the tests with ammo in a cooler and heated to see if there is any big swing in velocities or accuracy before I make the swap.

 

[STOMP442]

I ran the 39.5gr load over the Magneto after work yesterday. 10 Rounds gave me an avg velocity of 3006fps and an SD of 7. Its a little slower than I hoped, probably due to the 24" barrel but it sure shoots good right there.

 

[Milo 2.0]

I worked mine up recently: I fire formed the norma brass with the 39 gr load to form my 200 pieces with as thats what looked best in an initial ladder from 38-40 but I dont remember encountering any heavy bolt loft or pressure indicators at 40 gr. OCWd to narrow it down with the fireformed brass which sent me to 39.8 gr and with average velocity of 3079 fps. Thats 85 fps faster than my H4350 load and has me a bit concerned with that aspect despite not showing any pressure signs. Im going to run another test to see how much of a buffer I have above 40 gr before pressure signs. If I still have plenty of room I may switch to RL16 full on from my H4350 recipe. I might also do some of the tests with ammo in a cooler and heated to see if there is any big swing in velocities or accuracy before I make the swap.

Are you shooting 95gr too? I'm over 40gr with a 110 sierra. With this lot of powder it seems fine or I do not see pressure. If I were to use the lot of powder I use in my 6 creed, it would be warm. In my circle we're seeing some variances between powder lots of 16.

 

[spife7980]

Are you shooting 95gr too? I'm over 40gr with a 110 sierra. With this lot of powder it seems fine or I do not see pressure. If I were to use the lot of powder I use in my 6 creed, it would be warm. In my circle we're seeing some variances between powder lots of 16.

Gosh, cant believe I forgot that, shooting a 105 rdf. Velocity was a 9 shot sample on ms3

 

[STOMP442]

Gosh, cant believe I forgot that, shooting a 105 rdf. Velocity was a 9 shot sample on ms3

What barrel length are you running and how are the RDFs shooting for you? I have been less than pleased with most things Nosler but I have a buddy that is running the 140s in his Creedmoor that is getting some fantastic accuracy out of them.

 

[spife7980]

24” 7.5 twist criterion remage. I’m very pleased with them, they are earlyish shooters pro shop blems but I wasn’t so pleased with the 70 gr 22 bullet but I think it was just marginally unstable in a 9 twist. I haven’t noticed much variance in them though I only spot check a few to make sure nothing is swinging too much. I can’t really tell where they got classified as blems because it’s as good as any other bullet I’ve tried on the whole. Maybe it wasn’t to their spec but they shoot good for me and I actually had to use a bc of .31 to get my data to line up which is a far bit higher than their claimed. I’m waiting in a new barrel for the 223 and am thinking about trying the 85 rdf in it.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ STOMP442 or Milo,..
I am looking to build, a 6XCII light Varmint 24", next year and was wondering what Twist rate, would be best for, 80 to 95 grain bullets? I'm wanting to shoot, 80 grain Bal Tips or, 80 gr Sierra Blitz # 1515 for Varmint and the 95 grain SMK or, TMK's for longer range, steel Targets and was thinking about, 1-8 to 1-8.5 twist and .070- .090 FB.
Have either of, you done any 600-800 yard testing of the 95 grain SMK-TMK bullets ? I realize they are not going to be as "good" as the 107 SMK or, 105 HVLD but I'm looking for reasonable accuracy and LIGHT recoil if, possible ! Thanks in advance, guys !
Please keep testing the RL-16 powder, too !

 

[Milo 2.0]

@ STOMP442 or Milo,..
I am looking to build, a 6XCII light Varmint 24", next year and was wondering what Twist rate, would be best for, 80 to 95 grain bullets? I'm wanting to shoot, 80 grain Bal Tips or, 80 gr Sierra Blitz # 1515 for Varmint and the 95 grain SMK or, TMK's for longer range, steel Targets and was thinking about, 1-8 to 1-8.5 twist and .070- .090 FB.
Have either of, you done any 600-800 yard testing of the 95 grain SMK-TMK bullets ? I realize they are not going to be as "good" as the 107 SMK or, 105 HVLD but I'm looking for reasonable accuracy and LIGHT recoil if, possible ! Thanks in advance, guys !
Please keep testing the RL-16 powder, too !

I want to say go 8tw, I shoot 8tw, 105 Hybrid and a 110 Sierra. I'd solicit info from someone here who has more knowledge of the bullets you mentioned.

 

[Milo 2.0]

@ STOMP442 or Milo,..
I am looking to build, a 6XCII light Varmint 24", next year and was wondering what Twist rate, would be best for, 80 to 95 grain bullets? I'm wanting to shoot, 80 grain Bal Tips or, 80 gr Sierra Blitz # 1515 for Varmint and the 95 grain SMK or, TMK's for longer range, steel Targets and was thinking about, 1-8 to 1-8.5 twist and .070- .090 FB.
Have either of, you done any 600-800 yard testing of the 95 grain SMK-TMK bullets ? I realize they are not going to be as "good" as the 107 SMK or, 105 HVLD but I'm looking for reasonable accuracy and LIGHT recoil if, possible ! Thanks in advance, guys !
Please keep testing the RL-16 powder, too !

I wish I could help you out more with RL 16 in your anticipated application. Truth is, this is one powder I cannot classify, as to burn rates or predictability. I shoot it in a 6 Creed and 6XC, and charge wise it seems like it is slower than H4350, but that can be misleading too, acting like a higher energy powder. I honestly think for your application with lighter bullets it will perform great, but also think the window that it will work will be narrow, not an insurmountable problem(I may ne wrong), it does remarkably well with heavies in my testing.
I've messed with 4 different lots of this powder, lots made in 2016 seem to be downright hot, one lot made 3/08/17 seems to be the norm, lot made 8/17/2017 seems to be just a dog, case fill does not even look right, But powders made in 2018 seem to fall into a safe, predictable range.
There is nothing scientific in my load process, and the powder I called a dog in 6XC may be the quintessential powder in a 6 Creed given parameters like burn rate, case fill, bullet weight, etc...

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@Milo 2.0 ,. Thank you for your reply ! I agree with you that, the 1-8 twist is probably the best "all around" twist for, the 90-107's but, I was concerned a little about, the 80 grainer's as, I will probably shoot more of them than, any other bullet weight (Sierra Blitz #1515 or Nosler 80 gr, Bal Tip's). I've read a couple of posts stating that the 80-85's, "worked fine" with, the 1-8 but, some bullets, "may" come apart, at high velocity. There is a big discussion about bullets and twists at; Hunting .243 advice . I found it, by typing in; "best twist for 95 grain .243 bullets",.. an older post, but very informative ! Sierra shows the 1-9 for, the 95 SMK, so I thought maybe the 1-8.5 twist, would work best for, all the Bullets that, I wanted to shoot. But probably SAFER, to go with, the 1-8 for the 90-95 grain, SMK and TMK's for LR accuracy loads. Please, keep us posted on, using RL-16 and ANY "cool burning" powders, for the 6XC as, I'm very interested on getting some "mileage" out of, my Barrel ! Thanks again !

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I have a bunch of old H-4895 that, I will use up, in the 6XC to "play/plink" with, for the 80 grainer's.
My serious LR load (500-800 yd's) for 6"- 8" Steel plates, will be, the 95 grain,.. SMK, TMK, HVLD or, Bal Tip's ( which ever bullet, shoots the best for me). I will be looking at,.. RL-16, N160, N165 and HV-100 for those 4 bullets,.. Hopefully, someone has tried some of that, weight bullet / Powder combo,.. and responds on here ! Thanks again !

 

[Milo 2.0]

@Milo 2.0 ,. Thank you for your reply ! I agree with you that, the 1-8 twist is probably the best "all around" twist for, the 90-107's but, I was concerned a little about, the 80 grainer's as, I will probably shoot more of them than, any other bullet weight (Sierra Blitz #1515 or Nosler 80 gr, Bal Tip's). I've read a couple of posts stating that the 80-85's, "worked fine" with, the 1-8 but, some bullets, "may" come apart, at high velocity. There is a big discussion about bullets and twists at; Hunting .243 advice . I found it, by typing in; "best twist for 95 grain .243 bullets",.. an older post, but very informative ! Sierra shows the 1-9 for, the 95 SMK, so I thought maybe the 1-8.5 twist, would work best for, all the Bullets that, I wanted to shoot. But probably SAFER, to go with, the 1-8 for the 90-95 grain, SMK and TMK's for LR accuracy loads. Please, keep us posted on, using RL-16 and ANY "cool burning" powders, for the 6XC as, I'm very interested on getting some "mileage" out of, my Barrel ! Thanks again !

Yes, you are right, why I said I'm not your guy here, I have no experience here.

 

[WyleWD]

I have a bunch of old H-4895 that, I will use up, in the 6XC to "play/plink" with, for the 80 grainer's.
My serious LR load (500-800 yd's) for 6"- 8" Steel plates, will be, the 95 grain,.. SMK, TMK, HVLD or, Bal Tip's ( which ever bullet, shoots the best for me). I will be looking at,.. RL-16, N160, N165 and HV-100 for those 4 bullets,.. Hopefully, someone has tried some of that, weight bullet / Powder combo,.. and responds on here ! Thanks again !

Since 2007 I've owned 6xc's in 8, 9, 10, and 12 Twist. I've shot a BUNCH of different brands 95gr bullets. I've found that all of the 6xc's have been accurate and easy to load for. I've used nothing but the Norma 6xc brass. I've been trying to find R-16 locally for over 6 months now and yet to find it in stock, so I can't be of any help there. It's my thought that it should be just about right for the 95-103 gr bullets out of an 8tw or 9tw for both of them.

I've worked up to 40gr of H4350 for the 95's and found them to be a pretty solid 500yd performer with the 9tw rifles. I haven't tried them beyond 600 as they were fair at best there. For the 95's I've felt that the 40gr load with H4350 was a bit too slow. And the same for the 103's. That's why I wanted to check some R16. I've also tried R17 with the 95-105's, and while it gives more MV than the H4350, and on some days exceptional accuracy, it too seems a bit inconsistent.

I have a walk around sporter weight barrel for another xc that is a 10twist. Since there are very few opportunities for shots beyond 400yds around here, and most shots are 100-350yds it is by far my favorite and accurate varmint & predator hunting rifle using 70, 75, & 85gr bullets. In it I shoot mostly R15, 4320, or 4064 and use brass that has been used in my target rifles. It's my thought that the xc in 10 twist paired with 90gr Berger target bullets just might be a sleeper for the 500 & under yardages in competition.

So, after all that, as soon as I find some R-16 it will take a week or two to wring it out and let ya know what I find out with it. Sorry for the long post. WD

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

WyleWD,.. Thank you, for your reply! I look forward to your "findings" on RL-16. ( or any or other "cool" powders like, N-160, N-165 or HV-100) that can be used, in the 6XC.
I am looking to build, a walking around, light Varmint/ Deer Rifle with, a 24" #3 or #4 Brux barrel, in 6XC, with a 1-8 or, 1-8.5 twist at about, 8.5 pounds or less. I'm wanting good Target accuracy, for up to 800 yard Steel plates and reasonably light recoil. I'm hoping for, a "cool" temp stable, powder that works, Winter / Summer and is EZ on my barrel,.. NOT a lot, to ask,.. LOL ! I have no need or desire, to go above 95 grain bullets for MY purposes, so was thinking of the 1-8.5 twist for, the 80-95 grainer's as I understand "some" 80's are destroyed in the 1-8 if driven "fast" ! My main concern would be that, the Sierra 80 gr Blitz Varminter #1510 would be, over stabilized ! I'm pretty sure the Nosler 80 Bal Tip, is a pretty tough Bullet so NO worries, there. I am in no hurry as I still have, some barrel "Life" and 800 Bullets left, for my .22-250 Rem. 700 SA "Donor" ! Right now, I'm just doing some Internet scouting for correct,..twists, Powders, Bullets and appreciate all the help I can get. I'm also thinking that, Remington Engineers, wern't far off with their 1-9 twist for, "all a around" use in their 6mm's. Thanks again, for any insight and testing !

 

[WyleWD]

WyleWD,.. Thank you, for your reply! I look forward to your "findings" on RL-16. ( or any or other "cool" powders like, N-160, N-165 or HV-100) that can be used, in the 6XC.
I am looking to build, a walking around, light Varmint/ Deer Rifle with, a 24" #3 or #4 Brux barrel, in 6XC, with a 1-8 or, 1-8.5 twist at about, 8.5 pounds or less. I'm wanting good Target accuracy, for up to 800 yard Steel plates and reasonably light recoil. I'm hoping for, a "cool" temp stable, powder that works, Winter / Summer and is EZ on my barrel,.. NOT a lot, to ask,.. LOL ! I have no need or desire, to go above 95 grain bullets for MY purposes, so was thinking of the 1-8.5 twist for, the 80-95 grainer's as I understand "some" 80's are destroyed in the 1-8 if driven "fast" ! My main concern would be that, the Sierra 80 gr Blitz Varminter #1510 would be, over stabilized ! I'm pretty sure the Nosler 80 Bal Tip, is a pretty tough Bullet so NO worries, there. I am in no hurry as I still have, some barrel "Life" and 800 Bullets left, for my .22-250 Rem. 700 SA "Donor" ! Right now, I'm just doing some Internet scouting for correct,..twists, Powders, Bullets and appreciate all the help I can get. I'm also thinking that, Remington Engineers, wern't far off with their 1-9 twist for, "all a around" use in their 6mm's. Thanks again, for any insight and testing !

You're welcome. My walk around XC is a 26" #5 or #6, I forget which. If you have no need or desire to go to above 95gr bullets, and have a concern about over stabilizing those exceptionally accurate 80gr Blitz bullets (I love them and the 85gr HPBT),.... If it was me I'd not go with an 8 or 8.5 twist. You'll get along just fine with a 9 or 10twist, and a 10 is what I went with. But it's your rifle..... Good luck and I'll get back with ya as soon as I can find a pound of R-16. WD

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ Wyle,.. It would be nice if someone could test, the 95 TMK's with a 9 Twist, to make sure that, they "stabilize" at 600+ yards ! Sierra lists the 9 twist for, this bullet,..as MINIMUM Twist,.. I think . That's why I thought 8.5 T might be best. I will certainly think about the 9 Twist and the heavier #4 or, 5 barrel, for my next rifle. I look forward to hearing about, your testing of RL-16 ! Walmart's have been carrying some, Reliant powders lately, you might try looking at a couple of, WMT's. I've heard nothing but "good" about, the 80's and 85 Sierra's, very accurate, like you said and YES the 9 - 10 Twist is perfect for them.
I never would have thought that, finding the "right" twist for a span of, 80-95 Grain Bullets would be this , challenging,.. LOL ! Thanks again, for your help !

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I was unable to find any hard data for this combo but I wanted to give it go. It seemed to work really well so I wanted to post up my results here. I just finished up my latest 6mmXC build for a Client/ Buddy of mine. He started with a factory Remington in .22-250 that I trued up and added a PTG recoil lug. He also decided to go with a 24" Carbon SIX carbon fiber barrel. This is my first time messing with a Carbon Six barrel and I have to say I am very pleased with how it shot. I broke it in with 20 rounds loaded with 39gr of H4350 and a 95gr Tipped Match King that shot a 20 round group under an inch through the shoot and clean process. This barrel honestly cleaned up better than any other barrel I have used, very little fouling at all. After break in, I moved to some 105gr Berger Hybrids and Reloader 16. I started at 38.0gr and worked my way up to 39.5 in half grain increments. 39.5gr showed some slight flattening of primers so I stopped there. Bolt lift was still easy and primer pockets still good and tight so there is probably a little room to push harder if I wanted to. My start load actually proved to be the most accurate but the biggest five shot group of the day only measured .357". The 6mmXC continues to impress me and I now have components on the way to build one for myself.

Rifle Specs:
Remington 700 (trued)
Carbon Six 24" Sendero Contour
Ross Schuler 3 port brake
HS Precision Tactical Stock (PST035) skim bedded
Burris extreme bases and Burris high Signature Zee rings
Nightforce SHV 5-20x56
Norma brass
CCI LR #200
total weight = 9.25lbs

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ Stomp442,.. Could you please, put one of those 95 grain, Sierra TMK's, in a 6XC case seated so, the bottom of the bullets "pressure ring" (bottom of the bullets, "shank" portion), is touching/ level with, the neck shoulder, "junction area" with, the Boat tail portion, of the bullet, to be just below, the NS junction. Could you please, measure the COAL and give me, YOUR best estimate of, Free Bore needed for this bullet to be touching, the Lands. I have heard of FB's, anywhere from, .050 to .090 and up to, the .104 FB "works", but it would be nice, to KNOW, a closer estimate of, a good FB dimension !
After MUCH thought,.. I will probably build a 6XC in a year or, two, due to having a bunch of New .22-250 Brass, to convert !
I know that will take an older 6XC (version 1) Reamer and the correct Die set ( older version, too ). Thanks, very much, in advance !!

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

@ Stomp442,.. and others, I think, I finally have this "Freebore" stuff, figured out !
The Cartridge's, neck LENGTH is "Key" and the bullet of "choice" ( and it's BEARING surface, LENGTH ) is paramount, to getting the RIGHT freebore reamer ! Short bearing surface bullets, REQUIRE,.. SHORT freebores, IF you want to "touch" the Lands with, anything left of the Bullet's, Bearing Surface, in the "neck" ! Sierra e-mailed me with, their idea of, the "perfect" Twist rate, for their 95 grain bullets ( they thought, 1-8.7 would be, Optimal ) and it would be a good, "happy medium" to stabilize, the 80-90 grainer's, "good", too !
Now all I need is the "Bearing surface" of the TMK, to pick my reamer for, the 95 TMK's/ SMK's ! Berger 87 and 95 grain, Hunting and the 95 Target VLD's have, very SHORT bearing surfaces and require only a .035-.055 FB ! I saw this Info on, 6mmBr.com under, the Bullet comparator article that, was written, several years ago on the 95 VLD. Since the 6XC has, a long .305 length neck, the 95 VLD needs only the shortest FB reamer. Note; the 105's could use a .090 to 120 FB as it's a longer Bearing surf, Bullet. So no need, for Stomp, to put a bullet in the 6xc case for me as, I can now call or, email Sierra for the Bear surf. info !