6mm Dasher Hydro Dies

[DMC]

Hello All
Just looking for advice from any of the Dasher users here, I'm interested in the Hornady Hydro Forming Dies in 6mm Dasher, and whether or not to use these or just fire form. I have just got back from my smith, my Savage chambered in 6 Dasher (272 neck ). Im just thinking of saving barrel life , range time etc, I've read the couple of reports on here, just looking for a bit of further advice from any long term users

Thanks everybody
DMC

 

[johnmyers]

It works pretty well after you get the routine. I started with too much pressure on the first blow and split 5 of the first 25 cases. I then started hitting lighter on the first blow, harder on the 2nd and hard on the 3rd and split none on the next 275. They come out about 95% formed and it takes about 45 min to do 50 cases. Cost of bullets, powder and bbl life it doesn't take too many to justify buying one. And you can hydro form 100 cases faster than you can load and shoot 100.

 

[Frankr]

me to..
like are they worth the money?
How long does it take to get one?
do you really have to send a reamer print?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

They are worth it to me. Set it up to form .010 long, then set the shoulder back to give proper headspace and you don't even have to jam bullets on the first firing, and I run full house loads the first time and they shoot great. Saves me 30 bucks in fuel and range fee plus components. Use 91% rubbing alchohol instead of water. Less mess.

 

[boltfluter]

Hey Guys,

Great idea. What do these dies run? Thanks.

Regards, Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[johara1]

If i remember right it was 150,I use an old FF barrel.They are right the first time, and FF right out the door in the winter.....jim

 

[DMC]

Thanks everyone for the info - thats exactly want i wanted to find out.
Great sources of info on these forums here from some of the most experienced guys around

Thanks again
Good shooting everyone

DMC

 

[Frankr]

They are worth it to me. Set it up to form .010 long, then set the shoulder back to give proper headspace and you don't even have to jam bullets on the first firing, and I run full house loads the first time and they shoot great. Saves me 30 bucks in fuel and range fee plus components. Use 91% rubbing alchohol instead of water. Less mess.

I can see the value. I have a e-mail in to hornady but have not heard back yet.
How did you go about getting your's? what was the price?
What is 91% rubbing alchohol ? and why do you use it instead of water?

 

[johnmyers]

FJIM
Forget email and call Hornady and ask for Ben Syring, he will answer your ?s. I think they are around $180

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Just call them, 91% rubbing alchohol is used to treat wounds. Its cheap and available at any pharmacy. I use it because it will evaporate quickly from the brass and my press before rusting.

 

[flatlander]

Here's an opinion from the other side of the issue. I've fireformed 1500+pcs of Lapua BR brass for several Dashers that I've owned & still own. If you're limiting yourself to 80gr bullets or less with a slow twist bbl., then I'd consider using the hydro-form method. And even then, I'd first try fast powders like H322 or N130 with the heaviest bullets my bbl would stabilize.

With an 8-tw bbl for 105-108gr bullets, I can see absolutely no reason to hydro form as opposed to shooting FF loads with heavy bullets in matches. If done correctly, you won't see any less accuracy than you're going to get with fully formed brass; all you're giving up is about 100-125fps of velocity. I've shot FF loads in 600yd any/any prone matches, and in BR VS matches out to 500M with no reason to feel that I was under any disadvantage. The 1st clean I shot on the MR-1 tgt at 600 was with FF loads, and the X-count was good.

I've always used the false shoulder method for the Dasher, expanding necks to 6.5mm, then partial neck size back down to 6mm to form the false shoulder. You don't need to worry about jamming bullets when using the false shoulder - just load them where they shoot best.

Maybe if I had tons of spare time and nothing better to do with it than work on brass, I'd consider using a hydro form set. Actually, I have considered getting one, but it was for a 6.5x55 AI, where barrel life isn't as good as with a Dasher. But, as with the Dasher (and several other AI ctdgs I load for), I've found that good fireforming loads almost always shoot as accurately as those put up in fully formed cases.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

flatlander,
I believe you are correct for your type of shooting. In benchrest if I showed up with fire form loads I would most certainly not win. We shoot gongs also, and I would shoot a gong match with fire forming loads.

 

[lmorrison17]

I fire form in F-class matches.

 

[flatlander]

I'm not sure how to take the comment about shooting a Dasher in BR matches - if there were guys shooting Dashers in 100-200yd BR matches, I'm sure we'd have heard about them by now. I still maintain that if done correctly, the false shoulder fireforming method will produce accuracy that's going to be comparable with what you'll get with fully formed cases. It's been plenty good enough in my latest Dasher for use in BR Varmint Silhouette matches, which we shoot out to 500m.

I'll admit, I'm an old cheapskate - not only do I not want to spend the $$ on hydro form dies, but I absolutely hate to blow high-dollar bullets down a new bbl just to fireform brass. So I shoot 'em in BR VS and mid-range prone matches, and am happy with the results.

 

[Frankr]

I got a e-mail back from hornady, they said call us..lol...
well i have thought long and hard about it, at @ $425.00 a thousand bullets and the wear and tear on my expensive barrel. I do see the benefit of hydro forming..I think the idea of makeing them a bit long then bumping them back with your die is a great idea and should produce a round allmost as accurate as a full fire formed case.
my idea would be to fire form 20 cases, work out a load..then hydro form all the cases and load them with that load, shoot them at match's, practice, varmint's.. at least them expensive bullets would be doing some work for my money. I will be calling them when i get the money to make a order from them, but it's tough, I owe for a new 6ppc barrel, i just ordered powder&bullets,i need a 8 twist barrel..so i'm kind of broke..but as soon as i get the money i will order one, plus i allready talked to a few guy's about renting them the hydro die for them to form some cases.lol...I was hopeing to find out exactly what i needed to do and how much and how long it would take to get one, I have never called yet..I hate to call and not order..

 

[Mr. Ten-X]

DMC, the hydraulic method is good, but why not simply use a false-shoulder fireforming load? They will provide all the more accuracy you will likely need for varminting, medium-range NRA shooting, etc.

My first forming method with the Dasher was to use an old barrel that I had chambered specifically for forming using CoW, 700X and a plug of Crisco. What a PITA that was. Cannot recommend that method at all.

Eventually began using a slightly reduced charge using the false shoulder forming method and set the (at the time) state championship 4x600 score of 799-55X while forming cases. While forming cases for me, a friend that eventually bought the rifle fired the only 200 score he's ever fired at 1K yards in a coached team match. In fact, a fellow I knew was fireforming Dasher brass ala F-Class on a bunny day and fired a 200-16X on the old target at 1K yards.

For a resizing die, the smith reamed a Newlon die with a roughing reamer based on the loaded neck OD to give the bullet tension that I desired. It requires a 2-reamer set, the Newlon die, a Wilson hand die for bullet seating based on the chamber reamer and one large lot of Lapua brass, but all would last the life of several barrels once a guy is set up.

 

[johnmyers]

They are worth it to me. Set it up to form .010 long, then set the shoulder back to give proper headspace and you don't even have to jam bullets on the first firing, and I run full house loads the first time and they shoot great. Saves me 30 bucks in fuel and range fee plus components. Use 91% rubbing alchohol instead of water. Less mess.

Alchohol is a good idea, tried it today and is alot better than water.

 

[JohnMill]

FJ,
It's worth it. None of the consumables used in FF are getting cheaper. You will always have that die. Yes you have to send them a print. All the stuff you go thru to play this game that is nothin. I payed 178.95 for the die and delivery and it took 3-4 months in 2010 just after the article in the daily bulletin. TT Lonnie Hummel, die shop, great guy and a competitive shooter (1K).
Mount you press solid. Mine was an old cast iron press mounted on a 2x4 that was clamped to my big bench. Even though it was very close to the bench there was too much flex. It would have been better had it been more solider. A lead hammer about 3-4 lbs would be better than a 8-10 lb Mount it low so you are not making contact chest high. Alcoholsounds good just make sure it's well ventilated as you will (will) breath it. If you use water you will wear it. Fair warning if you are not very careful with the stroke on the pin you will bend it.
That's everything I know about it

John

 

[Blaster-37]

Maybe this will help.
Fireform while breaking in a new barrel. If one competes often, it averages out well with barrels and brass. For my Dashers, 26 gr of 8208 with culled bullets off the lands works well. Barrels at 400 and brass at 4 before they go to the show.
Greg