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6mm br vs 6.5x47 at 600yds+

Mark i think you are in tuff company down at Peidmont and need every advanage that you can get . I believe i have a 6.5 cartridge in the hands of a great shooter can be very competative and it does have an advantage over 6's .I think if sam figures that 6.5X47 round out it will put him in the winners circle . In order for me to beat some very good shooters i have to seperate myself from the rest of the field . I can't do that with skill i have to do it with an advantage. for me it is my 6.5 cartridge. heavier bullet ,more speed ,less wind drift, no recoil ,inherently accurate and easy on barrels .
Dear Abby if i could only shoot.
The Rifler
 
Re: 6mm br vs 6.5x47 at 600 yds

Mark
What makes the BR and BR improved so much better than anything else? I just built a 6BR and i have a dasher in the works. I choose these two chamberings because the proof is evident. I guess i just want to know why? LOL!! I really like my 6.5 creedmoor as it really really shoots well, but i havent competed with it yet. I would also like to try a 260 ack imp but i dont have money to waste and if it wont stand a chance of winning i dont want to build it, even though i really want one. I havent gotten a chance to shoot any f-class as there isnt really any shoots around here, but maybe the creedmoor and 260 imp would be best kept for those disciplines?? Lee
 
I once considered my 6.5x47L with Barnard action and 32.5" Krieger 8 twist barrel good out to 1000 yards. It is a great gun and laser accurate with 2920fps for 139gr Scenar (long throat chamber) bullets. I use 38.5gr of Varget summer or winter and temps in Australia go from 32-120F. This load is probably way too high for anything but target bolt actions but I get zero pressure signs and good brass life.

The thing about this rifle is that it will be competitive out to 1000 yards until the wind picks up. Once the wind picks up the 7mm rifles rule, end of story. I would recommend this rifle as perfect out to 600 yards and in moderate wind conditions this rifle with its low recoil gives tight groups and high scores. Like Laurie said in an earlier post the ballistics using the 6.5mm projectiles are better than the 6mm and should have an advantage over the 6mmBR.

If your in competitions to win out past 600 yards then get a 7mm (or better) or get blown away.

Ian
 
Lee,

The 6Br and the IMP are just one of the rounds that is accurate. The brass is of the highest quality made, just like the PPC (220 Rus). 6mm bullets are some of the best made. They do it with less powder and better barrel life.

Lynn, you are right. Some things have to be learned.

Mark Schronce
 
Ok , i have been on promoting 6.5 x47 cartridges. Well i know the 6mm br breeds are highly accurate and they own many records . But if you have trouble reading wind as it would appear i do and many other shooters that i run into.
is the 6br still the way to go ?
P.S. I just spent this weekendat Bridgeville De. getting my butt kicked by the guys who can read wind and their 6mm's.
One new IBS World Record 600yds. by Hal Drake and a very fine group agg. shoot by Sid Goodling .
Hal score 197 - 2.3 group agg.
Sid group 4 target agg. 1.77
Guys Sid's group came in some very windy conditions .
Oh one other record is in doubt they measured a single group today by Steve Wargo .715 to close to call but steve shot it with .284 . just thought it was worth mentioning .I am not ready to build a 6mm yet cause i won't have no excuses for bad shots .
The Rifler
 
As I read through these posts, one common factor is evident. Most of the posters compete in the B-R discipline. Now before you flame me into tears, hear me out. Answer yourself this question. How many years has the 6BR and it’s variants been in existence as opposed to the 6.5x47L? I pose this question to you because we all know that with time and experience, come knowledge. In the short period of time, (relatively speaking) the 6.5x47L has made great strides. I’ll make a bet with anyone willing to do so, that the 6.5x47L will outshoot the 6BR with-in the same time frame of its existence. It will just take time and shooters like Sam Hall to bring this cartridge to it’s full potential. BTW, I don’t shoot BR or F-class.
Just something to think about,
Lloyd
 
Good point i posted the results from a shoot i was at it would appear there was a 6.5X47 that did shoot well . Guy by the name of larry morrison won 2gun overall with his .I know you can't argue with success, but you won't find the next great cartridge if your not looking . The Rifler
 
As I read through these posts, one common factor is evident. Most of the posters compete in the B-R discipline. Now before you flame me into tears, hear me out. Answer yourself this question. How many years has the 6BR and it’s variants been in existence as opposed to the 6.5x47L? I pose this question to you because we all know that with time and experience, come knowledge. In the short period of time, (relatively speaking) the 6.5x47L has made great strides. I’ll make a bet with anyone willing to do so, that the 6.5x47L will outshoot the 6BR with-in the same time frame of its existence. It will just take time and shooters like Sam Hall to bring this cartridge to it’s full potential. BTW, I don’t shoot BR or F-class.
Just something to think about,
Lloyd

Lloyd,
you may well be right on this. There is that intangible something issue though that sees one cartridge become 'great' in a shooting field while others that should theoretically compete somehow never quite get there. The example that comes to mind is the PPC in short range BR of course, and I think it's generally accepted now that it's not just a development or even brass quality issue. The PPC outshoots similar rivals, and we don't know why. At the moment, the 6BR and BRX/Dasher variants look like they may be getting to the same point in 300-600yd BR type competition shooting. That's not to say they won't be pushed out of the top spot by something better, or even matched by a rival, but it looks like it won't happen quickly or soon.

One thing people often forget is that BR can see 5 shots rattled off in under 30 seconds while the wind conditions hold. F-Class or any other form of deliberate marked-target shooting is different because of the enforced gap between shots. This is particularly so on our side of the Atlantic (or north of the 49th Parallel). Unlike your F-Class, Fullbore, Palma, CLRP etc shooting, we British Commonwealth types are squadded two to a target (sometimes up to four in local shoots) and there is therefore a minimum three or so minutes between taking each shot by an individual shooter. Fairly typically, I shot in a club 600yd F-Class comp last Sunday and found myself with two others on 'my' target. Throw in one of them missing with both sighters and the resulting delays while the RO had to be asked for the target to be pulled and checked and people looking for his subsequent fall of shot and it took around 70-75 minutes to get through 2 sighters and 20 score shots. All this on a mountain valley range with a constantly varying wind. So each shot is virtually a new start so far as the wind-call goes.

6.5X47L likely gives a significant benefit even at 600yd over 6BR thanks to the external ballistics improvements in such a scenario. What has to be seen is how it stands up in national level competition against the big sevens since that's the competition in F-Open. Until this year, all national GB F-Class Association rounds were shot over a mixture of 800, 900, 1,000yd matches with the emphasis on the 1,000. The 6.5X47L can't hack it against 180gn 7mm Berger VLDs at 3,200 fps in these conditions (nor could the US F-Class team's 6.5-284 Norma in last summer's F-Class World Championship at Bisley). Club / regional level may turn out different with a bigger mix of ranges (distances) in a season's programme .............. and ...........the killer, the 7mmWSM brigade can't afford to shoot say 15 such matches in a season thanks to the barrel life issue. 15 matches is 300-330 shots, or 50% of barrel life. So they enter one or two matches only for practice, checking sight-settings etc. Unless you do your own gunsmithing, barrel replacement by a top gunsmith with a Bartlein or Krieger tube is an expensive job here - a bit over £700 all in which is $1,000 + in translation, and we just don't know how long it'll take to get that barrel into the country as well, many months now the norm!

So, accurate and ballistically effcient smaller cartridges that give long barrel life have a bright future in European and British Commonwealth shooting, and I think 6.5X47L is going to be a key player in this role. Also, as in the USA, many people want a multi-purpose longarm, and this cartridge is an excellent long-range fox/crow round and ideal for most of our deer species too.

To go back to the very original question in this thread, if I were having a multi-discipline target shooting single-shot rifle built for club / regional competition shooting, I'd stick to 6BR or variants if it were primarily for 600yd or shorter range competitions, but go for 6.5X47L if there were 800-1,000yd matches in the mix. If it were for F-Class at national level, I'd have neither, but stick to .308W in the F/TR division which I shoot now. This is down to the smaller cartridges' (lack of) competitiveness at thisd level and the cost issue of becoming competitive. I can say this hand on heart having campaigned a 6BR in national F-Class in 2007. I had a lot of fun and learned a lot but got nowhere results-wise, being completely outperformed even then by the big boomers. This was despite F-Class being a lot less less competitive three years ago than now. (Of course, it would help if I could read the wind like the top shooters - don't let anybody think I'm some sort of expert long-range shooter who can reasonably blame his results on the tools used!)

Laurie,
York, England
 
I attended a 600yd bench rest match last weekend as an observer and saw my first 6.5x47L. The man shooting it was an experienced good shooter. I don't know if he won overall but his groups were good in the 2" range compared to the other targets that I saw as they were scoring them. I talked to this man about his cartridge and he liked the small primer, barrel life. The conditions were good so reading the wind should not have been a problem. I did herar some complain about the mirage, I live in the desert so the mirage looked like nothing to me. The case is smaller than the drawings Iv'e seen of the 6.5 Creedmore and 260 Rem. It looks as if the pressure may be run higher to get the velocity. I did not see any 6BR's mostly 6.5x284's or cases bigger than the BR.
 
Now that I've had time to shoot my Eliseo RTS in 6.5x47 in a couple of XC HP matches, I'm more impressed with the cartridge. S107MKs at 3000fps are pretty darned good at bucking the wind during prone rapids at 300yds. Berger 140 LR BTs at 2824fps and 130 VLDs at 2933fps are also very decent performers at 600.

I need to experiment a little more with seating depth on the 140s - current load has excellent horizontal spreads, but a little more vertical than I like to see. The 130s are within 1/2" of the 140s in the wind at 600, and seem to find the X-ring a little more often than the 140s.

All in all, I have no regrets in having spent the money on the 6.5x47 reamer, dies, and brass. In fact, most of the components for a 24" bbl'd. tactical/hunter rifle project in 6.5x47 are sitting here waiting for me to get a few customer's projects out so I can play with another one of my own.
 
having built several of these 6.5 x47 and seeing the results on accuracy and ballistics with a variety of bullets . this cartridge will be a great choice for 600yd and 1000yds . look at the results at harry jones / fairmont 1000yds . comp . it is showing up in the winners circle . The Rifler
 
It sounds like folks like the 47. I have access to about 6 1000 yd practices per year with about 1 or 2 800-1000yd matches. I can shoot 600 practice once a week and 300 every day. Most of the matches are 300. So I am hoping the 47 can compete against the BR and BRX at 300 and win at 600 and beyond. No one yes shoots the 7mm's around here but that will chance very soon. At 1000 folks use everythin from the 6BR , 22-250, 308 to the 338 Lapua.
thanks for the feedback
jer
 

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