6mm Baba Yaga

[dakor]

capacity and velocity wise would that be close to a 6 saum or wsm? nice cartidge anyway. its an interesting idea. hope it works out well for you

Necked down to 6mm fired ADG cases hold 79.5 gr of water on average. I can get 77gr of H-1000 also in a fired case.

Everythng I have read on the 6mm saum its at 73 ish grains with water.

A 270 wsm is about the same 73 grains with water.

 

[357Mag]

I do but most do not know that. Besides a old woman that eats children is scary in her own right.

357Mag,

The rifle specs are a Sako TRG-S Action with a Shilen Match Sporter #3 8 twist 26.5 inch barrel. The rifle needs a facelift before I post any pics of it.

From what I have read the 115 DTAC seems pretty legit on game even bigger animals. Speed Kills.

Necked down to 6mm fired ADG cases hold 79.5 gr of water on average. I can get 77gr of H-1000 also in a fired case.

Everythng I have read on the 6mm saum its at 73 ish grains with water.

A 270 wsm is about the same 73 grains with water.

Dakor -

Howdy !

Can you safely shoot 77gr H-1000 under your chosen bullet, in your rifle; and pressure is ok ?


With regards,
357Mag

 

[ebb]

TRGS action, I love them.

 

[dakor]

Dakor -

Howdy !

Can you safely shoot 77gr H-1000 under your chosen bullet, in your rifle; and pressure is ok ?


With regards,
357Mag

The case is full to the top with 77gr of H-1000 so the answer would be no. The load I am shooting is 69.5gr of a powder that will remain nameless.

After I came up with the load I took 2 new cases and fired them 4 times each.

Both primer pockets are still tight and the case around the 200 line is expanding .001. On a fired case.

I have easy extraction, no ejector marks, no flat primers so the load is safe in my book.

 

[357Mag]

The case is full to the top with 77gr of H-1000 so the answer would be no. The load I am shooting is 69.5gr of a powder that will remain nameless.

After I came up with the load I took 2 new cases and fired them 4 times each.

Both primer pockets are still tight and the case around the 200 line is expanding .001. On a fired case.

I have easy extraction, no ejector marks, no flat primers so the load is safe in my book.

Dakor -

Howdy !

Thanx for the response back !

Ok…. “ full case “…. I gotcha, now.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[ebb]

When Berreta bought Sako they sold of all the TRGS rifles at CDNN sports. I bought one in 30-378 wea never owned a piece of brass or shot one round through it as a 30-378. It got a Rock Creek barrel in 338, and shoots really well. When I bought the one rifle, I should have bought them all.

 

[dakor]

I did some testing last week and sighting in out to 900 yards. This caliber is just unreal how it cuts the wind.

The only thing I have seen cut the wind like this is a big 338 shooting 300 bergers close to 3000fps.

This cuts the wind better than my 7mm stw launching 180 Bergers at 3153fps

I shot the 6mm, my 6.5-280 Ackley thats also a new build and my 7 wsm side by side at 900 yards.

6.5-280 Ackley load is a 140 Berger VLD hunting at 3159fps average. 7 wsm load is a 162 eldx at 3105fps.

The 6mm Baba Yaga needed half the wind at 900 yards and dented the steel plate just as much as the 6.5-280 Ackley did or 7wsm.

First attached pic is the first 2 shots on the 900 yard plate with the 6mm Baba Yaga.

The second attachmemt is one of the dents from the 900 yard plate with the 6.5-280 Ackley.


I did not get a pic of the bullet impact of the 7wsm but it was the same as the other 2.

 

[ELR LVR]

I did some testing last week and sighting in out to 900 yards. This caliber is just unreal how it cuts the wind.

The only thing I have seen cut the wind like this is a big 338 shooting 300 bergers close to 3000fps.

This cuts the wind better than my 7mm stw launching 180 Bergers at 3153fps

I shot the 6mm, my 6.5-280 Ackley thats also a new build and my 7 wsm side by side at 900 yards.

6.5-280 Ackley load is a 140 Berger VLD hunting at 3159fps average. 7 wsm load is a 162 eldx at 3105fps.

The 6mm Baba Yaga needed half the wind at 900 yards and dented the steel plate just as much as the 6.5-280 Ackley did or 7wsm.

First attached pic is the first 2 shots on the 900 yard plate with the 6mm Baba Yaga.

The second attachmemt is one of the dents from the 900 yard plate with the 6.5-280 Ackley.


I did not get a pic of the bullet impact of the 7wsm but it was the same as the other 2.

I like what you did here, very nice development you got going on
I'm intrigued since I shoot a 30 inch 6x284 driving at 3375 fps with 53.0 grns H1000
I'd always thought of doing something like a 28 Nosler necked down to 6mm
Looks like you've done something similar.
3400 is easy in a 6x284 with no pressure signs but I cut the load back slightly for accuracy.
I did get 3500 fps with a 32 inch tube, but was front heavy and cut it back to 30 inches.
I can confirm the accuracy you are getting as well as the fact those DTACS cut the wind like butter.
Especially at 3300 + speeds anyhow
------------------
Nice work man
it also goes to show, adding another 10 - 15 grains of powder may only yield another 150 fps or so
Not knocking it
but its a similar comparison to a 284 Win at 2850fps vs a 7 Mag at 3000 fps
at a certain point, you have to throw in a LOT more powder for a little bit more velocity.
------------------
Try yours at a Mile, it is unreal how they will literally stack them on top of one another at that distance
If you Hbn coat your DTACS, you will greatly improve your throat life
I used to have about .300" throat erosion by 1000 rounds in the 6x284
(pretty much the norm In 3 Krieger barrels)
With Hbn coated Dtacs I have .010" erosion after 1200 rounds in my latest Krieger
Hot Rod 6's are an amazing round
-------------
With some tuning you should be able to squeeze down your 600 yd groups another inch
(actually after seeing the rifle again, maybe simply adding weight would be all thats needed to tame it down and your load may be just fine.) I will admit mine weighs 20 lbs so doens't move much during recoil
You might want to try some F-210's and BR2 primers (F-210's give me the best accuracy of approx 1/4 MOA at any distance out to 2200 yds
heres how mine shoots at 100 & 600 respectively

 

[WSnyder]

Have you done any testing with the bullets on live game?

A lot of guys have used the DTAC Nosering’s pretty successfully in the 6UM (6 SAUM) in both the improved 40° and the std 30°. UM being Unknown Munitions. They’ve used both the Noserings and the deep cut Noserings.

I’m in the middle of a 6 project that’ll be ~75gn H2O. It’s just the right length for a short action with no mag length limitations with the DTAC.

 

[dakor]

I like what you did here, very nice development you got going on
I'm intrigued since I shoot a 30 inch 6x284 driving at 3375 fps with 53.0 grns H1000
I'd always thought of doing something like a 28 Nosler necked down to 6mm
Looks like you've done something similar.
3400 is easy in a 6x284 with no pressure signs but I cut the load back slightly for accuracy.
I did get 3500 fps with a 32 inch tube, but was front heavy and cut it back to 30 inches.
I can confirm the accuracy you are getting as well as the fact those DTACS cut the wind like butter.
Especially at 3300 + speeds anyhow
------------------
Nice work man
it also goes to show, adding another 10 - 15 grains of powder may only yield another 150 fps or so
Not knocking it
but its a similar comparison to a 284 Win at 2850fps vs a 7 Mag at 3000 fps
at a certain point, you have to throw in a LOT more powder for a little bit more velocity.
------------------
Try yours at a Mile, it is unreal how they will literally stack them on top of one another at that distance
If you Hbn coat your DTACS, you will greatly improve your throat life
I used to have about .300" throat erosion by 1000 rounds in the 6x284
(pretty much the norm In 3 Krieger barrels)
With Hbn coated Dtacs I have .010" erosion after 1200 rounds in my latest Krieger
Hot Rod 6's are an amazing round
-------------
With some tuning you should be able to squeeze down your 600 yd groups another inch
(actually after seeing the rifle again, maybe simply adding weight would be all thats needed to tame it down and your load may be just fine.) I will admit mine weighs 20 lbs so doens't move much during recoil
You might want to try some F-210's and BR2 primers (F-210's give me the best accuracy of approx 1/4 MOA at any distance out to 2200 yds
heres how mine shoots at 100 & 600 respectively

Thank you and thank you for the info.

This is a hunting rifle and already a little heavier than I wanted because the sako action is heavy so I would not add weight.

I am going to put another one together thats on a Tikka this winter and try get the rifle weight around 9lbs with a suppressor, scope, and bipod like my 7 wsm is.


I wanted to find the easy button for hunting around home and western hunting at longer ranges.

I have 2 6-284's been using one since 1998. Its an awesome round I just wanted more speed with the heavies.

I am shooting 105 Bergers out of my 6-284 8 twist with a 26 inch barrel at 3250fps.

This is 6mm is shooting a 115 out of a 26 inch barrel at 3505fps. Thats 255fps more with 10 grains more of bullet and thats a lot of gain. With 105's I would bet reaching 3650fps or more would be possible.

A 6-284 is not even coming close to that.

I am using the 115 TBN coated Nose ring DTAC.

 

[TxBowHunter409]

Here is what JBM says at 865ft of elevation where I live.


View attachment 1686059

Only 17 inches of drop at 500 yards. That's impressive. Hell your 500 yard velocity is what allot of my guns shoot at the muzzle. That's crazy!

 

[ELR LVR]

Thank you and thank you for the info.

This is a hunting rifle and already a little heavier than I wanted because the sako action is heavy so I would not add weight.

I am going to put another one together thats on a Tikka this winter and try get the rifle weight around 9lbs with a suppressor, scope, and bipod like my 7 wsm is.


I wanted to find the easy button for hunting around home and western hunting at longer ranges.

I have 2 6-284's been using one since 1998. Its an awesome round I just wanted more speed with the heavies.

I am shooting 105 Bergers out of my 6-284 8 twist with a 26 inch barrel at 3250fps.

This is 6mm is shooting a 115 out of a 26 inch barrel at 3505fps. Thats 255fps more with 10 grains more of bullet and thats a lot of gain. With 105's I would bet reaching 3650fps or more would be possible.

A 6-284 is not even coming close to that.

I am using the 115 TBN coated Nose ring DTAC.

Strictly Hunting rifle, I may have missed that
and if you are getting those speeds with a 26 inch barrel then I am speculating you would then likely easily get 3600+ with the 115 using a 30 inch barrel.
So yes you have greatly improved the velocity
------------
I was merely making a point that with more barrel, is kind of a life hack to gain free velocity from a 6x284
But lugging around a 30-32 inch barreled hunting rifle in order to do so may not be practical lol.
So yes I am seeing your point now, although am also making the point a 6x284 can approach those speeds...Albeit at the cost of more barrel and more weight.
To take it to an extreme, if we used a 40 inch barrel in 6x284 what do you suspect the velocity would be?
Not practical but accomplishable, yes?,
----
so I believe we can agree, less barrel length/using more powder
=
More barrel length/using less powder
--------------
Again my hats off to you, I like it, as I mentioned after using a 6x284 for 30 some years because of how purely awesome and flat they shoot, PLUS their retained velocity at long distance
IE: (When I built my first 6x284, the 50 BMG was the only other round that compared in trajectory, is why I chose it)
I am inclined to do something similar as you did.
I also like having near 1000ft/lbs for hunting which the 6x284 retains so much velocity it still has that much energy at 1000 yds. (beating out the 7mm Mag from 600 on out)
it is amazing to have a smaller case, lighter bullet, less recoil, and beat out a 7mm mag.
And am seeing the virtue of doing a larger case will allow for a shorter barrel despite barrel life
I am thinking maybe a 22 inch barrel, large case 6mm may be able to equal a 30 inch 6x284 case in velocity.
--------------
Again I like what you have done and the results you have posted.
---Especially with your barrel length and profile
Your rifle weights are very admirable
I tried building a light hunting rifle using a Bartlein Carbon Wrapped barrel and MDT Carbon chassis
in straight 284 Win and it still weighed 10 lbs with scope (7lbs without) so you have done well!!!
(dont ya wish someone would make a 120 gr 6mm bullet for what we do )
(I would be interested in your barrel life using the Hbn coated bullets with your round.)
I would speculate 600 rounds of useful accurate life, which is great for a hunting rifle
but if you get more that would be really great, allowing for some target shooting in between.
Hbn has really impressed me so it may be possible to up our case sizes and still have decent barrel life.

 

[dakor]

Strictly Hunting rifle, I may have missed that
and if you are getting those speeds with a 26 inch barrel then I am speculating you would then likely easily get 3600+ with the 115 using a 30 inch barrel.
So yes you have greatly improved the velocity
------------
I was merely making a point that with more barrel, is kind of a life hack to gain free velocity from a 6x284
But lugging around a 30-32 inch barreled hunting rifle in order to do so may not be practical lol.
So yes I am seeing your point now, although am also making the point a 6x284 can approach those speeds...Albeit at the cost of more barrel and more weight.
To take it to an extreme, if we used a 40 inch barrel in 6x284 what do you suspect the velocity would be?
Not practical but accomplishable, yes?,
----
so I believe we can agree, less barrel length/using more powder
=
More barrel length/using less powder
--------------
Again my hats off to you, I like it, as I mentioned after using a 6x284 for 30 some years because of how purely awesome and flat they shoot, (When I built my first the 50 BMG was the only other round that compared in trajectory, beating out even the 300 winmag which is why I chose it)
I am inclined to do something similar as you did.
I also like to hold to having near 1000ft/lbs for hunting which the 6x284 retains so much velocity it still has that much energy at 1000 yds. (beating out the 7mm Mag from 600 on out)
it is amazing to have a smaller case, lighter bullet, less recoil, and beat out a 7mm mag.
And am seeing the virtue of doing a larger case will allow for a shorter barrel despite barrel life
I am thinking maybe a 22 inch large case 6mm may be able to equal a 30 inch 6x284 case in velocity.
--------------
Again I like what you have done and the results you have posted.
---Especially with your barrel length and profile
Your rifle weights are very admirable
I tried building a light hunting rifle using a Bartlein Carbon Wrapped barrel and MDT Carbon chassis
in straight 284 Win and it still weighed 10 lbs with scope so you have done well!!!
(dont ya wish someone would make a 120 gr 6mm bullet for what we do )
(I would be interested in your barrel life using the Hbn coated bullets with your round.)
I would speculate 600 rounds of useful accurate life, which is great for a hunting rifle
but if you get more that would be really great, allowing for some target shooting in between.
Hbn has really impressed me so it may be possible to up our case sizes and still have decent barrel life.

With a 40 inch barrel and a 6-284 I think you would lose velocity over a 30 to 34 inch. There have been guys that have tried 40 inch barrels in some bigger magnums and ended up cutting them down because they were losing velocity past 36 inches.

You may still find some info on these tests if you dig around on the web.

Chatgpt figures with all the data I gave it I am running in that 60,000 to 62,000 psi range with my current load.

I did have the 115's up to 3568fps but that load did not shoot as well and using 70gr of powder. So if I really wanted to lean on it I could hit 3600fps or more pretty easy or just switch over to R-26 but this load does everything I need it to do.

I would love if someone made 120 or 125gr bullets. I did call a custom bullet maker that did make.a 120gr at one time but no longer does.

I even thought about having some bullet forming dies made to do this but for what you would have to spend to buy jackets or cores it would not be worth it at all.

 

[ELR LVR]

With a 40 inch barrel and a 6-284 I think you would lose velocity over a 30 to 34 inch. There have been guys that have tried 40 inch barrels in some bigger magnums and ended up cutting them down because they were losing velocity past 36 inches.

You may still find some info on these tests if you dig around on the web.

Chatgpt figures with all the data I gave it I am running in that 60,000 to 62,000 psi range with my current load.

I did have the 115's up to 3568fps but that load did not shoot as well and using 70gr of powder. So if I really wanted to lean on it I could hit 3600fps or more pretty easy or just switch over to R-26 but this load does everything I need it to do.

I would love if someone made 120 or 125gr bullets. I did call a custom bullet maker that did make.a 120gr at one time but no longer does.

I even thought about having some bullet forming dies made to do this but for what you would have to spend to buy jackets or cores it would not be worth it at all.

Got it, I wasn't aware you have diminished returns at 40 inches, I would agree at some point the powder is used up and pressure would fall off due to friction at some point.
I do know I have read of some guys using such a long barrel (maybe with a .416 or something)
Please note:
I am not competing with you here, rather sharing my own results since it may be relevent for you at some point.
I believe we have a common interest in the Fast 6's.
My most recent barrel I started at 34 inches, was getting 3500+ velocity
I am not sure but perhaps the 4 groove barrel aid in velocity
I do know I have stuck with 4 groove and always gotten higher than norm velocities.
When I used 107's with a 1:9 4 groove barrel, 3400 fps was the norm there.
Hence why I speculated an even longer barrel with the right slow enough powder to match it may gain even more velocity,
which with consideration to Jacket integrity, I feel may be a safer way too help them survive vs using more powder and driving velocities up.
Therefore, I like you are Pioneering this aspect having driven the Dtac's velocities up near 3600 fps which shows they will hold together, big relief.
One problem I have had with many other bullets (mainly Hornady's) they seem to not survive past 3200
Including the 110 A-tips, which was so disappointing considering the cost for such a bullet you would think they would be engineered to survive the same as SMK's and Dtacs

I fully agree with chasing accuracy vs velocity within cutting back a load to keep it accurate.
One reason I arrived and settled at around 3375-3400 fps

I think if we make some 120-125's we would need special jacket thickness to survive the velocities we want. (another higher cost additive) we would have to charge $3 per bullet.
Who would buy them except us? Lol

John

 

[ELR LVR]

I did some testing last week and sighting in out to 900 yards. This caliber is just unreal how it cuts the wind.

The only thing I have seen cut the wind like this is a big 338 shooting 300 bergers close to 3000fps.

This cuts the wind better than my 7mm stw launching 180 Bergers at 3153fps

I shot the 6mm, my 6.5-280 Ackley thats also a new build and my 7 wsm side by side at 900 yards.

6.5-280 Ackley load is a 140 Berger VLD hunting at 3159fps average. 7 wsm load is a 162 eldx at 3105fps.

The 6mm Baba Yaga needed half the wind at 900 yards and dented the steel plate just as much as the 6.5-280 Ackley did or 7wsm.

First attached pic is the first 2 shots on the 900 yard plate with the 6mm Baba Yaga.

The second attachmemt is one of the dents from the 900 yard plate with the 6.5-280 Ackley.


I did not get a pic of the bullet impact of the 7wsm but it was the same as the other 2.

Nice man!!! Liking it more, I just noticed the pics on your plate at 900
For fun you should try the same on some 1/4" mild steel at 600
then compare it to the anemic .308 at 600
Your eyes will pop out
-------------
After witnessing the difference, I cannot believe anyone would choose a .308 for 600 yd hunting

 

[dakor]

Nice man!!! Liking it more, I just noticed the pics on your plate at 900
For fun you should try the same on some 1/4" mild steel at 600
then compare it to the anemic .308 at 600
Your eyes will pop out
-------------
After witnessing the difference, I cannot believe anyone would choose a .308 for 600 yd hunting

If you want a fast 6mm barrel I would look at Shilen. They just seem to run faster even in smaller cases like a 6x45 or 6-204 and they also drive tacks.

Doesnt seem to matter if its a match or select match or if its their ratchet rifling or their standard.

I have used a lot of them on builds over the years.

 

[357Mag]

Necked down to 6mm fired ADG cases hold 79.5 gr of water on average. I can get 77gr of H-1000 also in a fired case.

Everythng I have read on the 6mm saum its at 73 ish grains with water.

A 270 wsm is about the same 73 grains with water.

Dakar -

Howdy ! Interesting project you have going.

In your efforts to wrest all possible benefits from your cartridge components, one item not touched on yet; is primers.

There is a possibility that ( if multiple primers are range tested ) one may pull ahead of the others on attained Mv; along w/ displaying safe load pressure + useful accuracy.

Example from:
- Shooting my “ .22-35 Remington “ wildcat in a 28” SS K & P .224” cal 5 groove….
I got 3,500 fps from 41.5gr AA3100 and FED Large Magnum Rifle Match along with good accuracy. When I changed primers to FED LR Match, groups shrunk nicely, while vel reduced to 3,420 fps. In my gun / my loads…. the primer change affected attained Mv by over 75 fps; while group size ( comparing the 2 loads ) was not very far apart.

Of course… YRMV, and you’d need adequate primer provision; along w/ acceptance of the number of fired rounds required. My example primer wring-out only required 10 rnds fired total, to see the light.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[dakor]

Dakar -

Howdy ! Interesting project you have going.

In your efforts to wrest all possible benefits from your cartridge components, one item not touched on yet; is primers.

There is a possibility that ( if multiple primers are range tested ) one may pull ahead of the others on attained Mv; along w/ displaying safe load pressure + useful accuracy.

Example from:
- Shooting my “ .22-35 Remington “ wildcat in a 28” SS K & P .224” cal 5 groove….
I got 3,500 fps from 41.5gr AA3100 and FED Large Magnum Rifle Match along with good accuracy. When I changed primers to FED LR Match, groups shrunk nicely, while vel reduced to 3,420 fps. In my gun / my loads…. the primer change affected attained Mv by over 75 fps; while group size ( comparing the 2 loads ) was not very far apart.

Of course… YRMV, and you’d need adequate primer provision; along w/ acceptance of the number of fired rounds required. My example primer wring-out only required 10 rnds fired total, to see the light.


With regards,
357Mag

I am using the Federal 215 primer thats always my go to primer for magnums.

For what I am getting accuracy wise the amount I have of them and with an SD of 11.8 I wont be changing.

I am just waiting on deer rifle season to open up to try this thing out at this point.