6mm ARC VS 6PPC

[SD guy]

Just for the sake of discussion what is your thoughts on the 6mm ARC VS the 6 PPC? With Alpha offering quality brass for each chambering, for the Bench rest folks, is there much difference in the accuracy potential of either? In this example lets say we are talking the same barrel, barrel length, contour & twist rate on the same action. Would the luck of the draw on a quality barrel make more difference than the differences in case design?

Better yet for the average hunter using a light weight barrel would a shooter realize an advantage of one chambering over the other?

 

[Evan]

I bet it’s a toss up. Get a slow lot of powder and the tiny bit of extra room the ARC gives might be nice.

I think the important difference is that a 6 ARC used for SR BR will not be using the long-throat SAAMI spec that Hornady defined for the 100gn class of bullets. With a custom throat spec, the ARC becomes a long PPC wildcat and the accuracy potential difference will be minimal.

 

[troupe]

Would love to see more rifle builds with the shorter freebore in the 6arc for the comparison, but I guess it would not make sense since the known track record of the 6ppc. I have plenty of arc brass, but no bolt gun. I also have 6br brass, so I would have to decide which 6mm I would want.

 

[SD guy]

I bet it’s a toss up. Get a slow lot of powder and the tiny bit of extra room the ARC gives might be nice.

I think the important difference is that a 6 ARC used for SR BR will not be using the long-throat SAAMI spec that Hornady defined for the 100gn class of bullets. With a custom throat spec, the ARC becomes a long PPC wildcat and the accuracy potential difference will be minimal.

Ok say we have aliquit bolt throw & we go the other way. Providethe 6 PPC with the faster twist & the longer throat, are they still a flip of a coin? Or would one have an edge over the other. From my perspective if we were to make similar allotments for throat in either cartridge & provide the same barrel twist, then the differences that stand out are the length of the neck & the size of the flash hole.

Are they a push or does one have an appreciable advantage?

suppose the devel is in the details. same allotments for neck turn & custom chamber with same clearance & runout tolerances blueprinted action then the same trigger & nut behind the trigger I expect we would be hard pressed to guess or know which cartridge was shooting the very small groups on the X.

I could be wrong, What do I know?

 

[chromatica]

I have built both gas and bolt versions of 6 ARC. I was also interested in the relative performance of the 6ARC and 6PPC. In looking up load recipes, I noticed that 6PPC pages in the Hornady manual only went up to 75 grain projectiles. The Lyman manual V49 tops out at 85 grains. Does anyone know why PPC recipes would not include heavier bullets?

 

[CJ6]

I have built both gas and bolt versions of 6 ARC. I was also interested in the relative performance of the 6ARC and 6PPC. In looking up load recipes, I noticed that 6PPC pages only went up to 75 grain projectiles. This is true for the Hornady Manual V11 as well as Lyman. Does anyone know why PPC recipes would top out at this level?

I would say intended usage for each cartridge. The PPC being traditionally a short range br cartridge with lite bullets.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I would say intended usage for each cartridge. The PPC being traditionally a short range br cartridge with lite bullets.

Ask yourself...who decided an ARC should be throated for long bullets and why.

Answer...Hornady and Marketing.
The cartridge shines brightest with light bullets but high bc is the cool kid right now

 

[CJ6]

Ask yourself...who decided an ARC should be throated for long bullets and why.

Answer...Hornady and Marketing.
The cartridge shines brightest with light bullets but high bc is the cool kid right now

No argument there. Hornady is a marketing machine.

 

[SD guy]

Ask yourself...who decided an ARC should be throated for long bullets and why.

Answer...Hornady and Marketing.
The cartridge shines brightest with light bullets but high bc is the cool kid right now

I can only imagine Hornady seen more volume potential for this application, as a hunting cartridge than for a short range paper punch.

 

[Evan]

I can only imagine Hornady seen more volume potential for this application, as a hunting cartridge than for a short range paper punch.

They wanted an AR-platform cartridge that would work for PRS. It’s just about as big as you can go on a “standard” AR-15.

It really is too bad the 224 Valkyrie was so poorly marketed and supported. I really liked it, even the name. Hornady does a good job, far better than any of the other companies have. I doubt we would have Alpha 6 PPC without the 6 and 22 ARC to backstop it and make a viable business case.

 

[SD guy]

Is PRS that big?

 

[R&B]

Just for the sake of discussion what is your thoughts on the 6mm ARC VS the 6 PPC? With Alpha offering quality brass for each chambering, for the Bench rest folks, is there much difference in the accuracy potential of either? In this example lets say we are talking the same barrel, barrel length, contour & twist rate on the same action. Would the luck of the draw on a quality barrel make more difference than the differences in case design?

Better yet for the average hunter using a light weight barrel would a shooter realize an advantage of one chambering over the other?

6mm ARC and 6mm PPC are 2 different animals. Many people shooting 6mm PPC form their own brass from 220 Lapua brass. The 6mm PPC was developed for short range bench rest thus it is extremely suited for it. The results speak for themselves. The market for this round is extremely limited. That is why Lapua does not make it. 6mm PPC shooters don't burn through brass like other disciplines (20 shots for score). . Short range bench rest brass never touches the ground. 220 Lapua brass is extremely consistent and extremely durable that is why it is still the brass of choice for short range BR shooters. I shoot Norma PPC brass but I am not sure it is as durable as Lapua brass especially if you're loading at higher pressure levels.

The 6mm ARC is not new. It is based of the work others have already done (Robert Whitley). 6mm ARC was not designed or developed for short range bench rest. The basic design principle is a more powerful AR15 round for XTC match rifle competition or long range shooting ....... mo powa babeh! 556 and 223 are great but not so great at shooting past 600 yards. Not everybody wants to deal with the recoil of a .308 when shooting a course of fire in a match for 2 or 3 days. It always come down to horses for courses.

I will order some Alpha Munitions PPC brass for my rifle soon and see if it meets my expectations.

R&B

 

[SteveOak]

6PPC 30.71 grains of water

6mm ARC case 34.58 grains, a 12.68% increase

38.64 grains for a 6BR, another 11.74% increase

Different animals.

Is the PPC inherently more accurate than the BR? Or does it just have the advantage in it's preponderance?

There are a multitude of variations of the 6 PPC somewhat larger than the CIP standard and so many people cramming impressive amounts of powder into the PPC and variants.

Is the powder creep of the PPC an indication of something? Is the overstuffed nature the key to it's success or is it the quantity of powder and the resulting increase in speed? Is an overstuffed case perhaps more efficient and/or consistant? Perhaps the CIP version of the PPC is less than perfect?

I would be very interested to see someone use a 6 ARC case in a barrel with a slow twist, chambered for 6 ARC and throated for 65 to 68gr bullets.

 

[WyleWD]

I would be very interested to see someone use a 6 ARC case in a barrel with a slow twist, chambered for 6 ARC and throated for 65 to 68gr bullets.

They are already out there and competing at the club level. Not many but one here and there. But the shooters who really want to know were on it almost a year ago.

Accuracy is the same, speeds are close enough, etc etc. In the end it all comes down to the shooter, reloader skills, conditions, bullets and barrels. JME. WD

 

[JEFFPPC]

Just for the sake of discussion what is your thoughts on the 6mm ARC VS the 6 PPC? With Alpha offering quality brass for each chambering, for the Bench rest folks, is there much difference in the accuracy potential of either? In this example lets say we are talking the same barrel, barrel length, contour & twist rate on the same action. Would the luck of the draw on a quality barrel make more difference than the differences in case design?

Better yet for the average hunter using a light weight barrel would a shooter realize an advantage of one chambering over the other?

Q1 yes
Q2 no

 

[David Milisock]

Ask yourself...who decided an ARC should be throated for long bullets and why.

Answer...Hornady and Marketing.
The cartridge shines brightest with light bullets but high bc is the cool kid right now

I believe the long throat was required to meet DOD specs. I do agree that the emphasis on high BC and sectional density has gone too far for field work, I don't use them for varmints in my 6MM Remington. In my mind the cartridge capacity of the 6MM ARC certainly is conducive to lighter projectiles in properly throated chambers.

With that said if you're looking for a SPR/DMR rifle or a 1 rifle concept of a general purpose/PDW rifle the 100+ grain projectiles fits the bill. You can still shoot lighter 6MM projectiles but maybe not as accurate.

My reasoning comes from experience, waaay back my experience with the M1/M2 in 30 Carbine was that it was extremely functional at 200 yards and less however in rapid fire it bounces around like mad, and has too short a reach. It still is a decent PDW.

The modern M4/M16 in 5.56×45 (M855 or M855A) with short barrels, (16" or less) is functional out to 300+ yards, it still bounces around a bit but the accuracy, range and energy on target limitations are an issue, causing you to choose between a short barreled fast acting rifle with limited reach and energy or moving up to 16" or 20" barrels that slow you down in close but improves effective ranges and energy on target out to 500+ yards.

The M4 in 6MM ARC handles short barrels better than the 5.56×45 version and a SPR with a 16" barrels outperforms a M16 in 5.56×45 with a 20" barrel, moving effective range 9f the 16" out to 800+ yards.

My 16" Aero Precision M4E is about the same length as my 30 Carbines, weighs about 8 pounds so it is very fast acting with little bounce in rapid fire, with exceptional sub inch 100 yard accuracy. The carbine throws a 110 grain at about 2050 FPS in a 2"+ 100 yard group, the 6MM ARC throws a 103 to 105 grain at 2550 FPS. Effective ranges are 200 and 800 yards respectively.

The DOD in my opinion had the right concept in this case, but the varmint boys should follow your lead.

 

[bobcat93]

That little 6mm arc has some big ass shoes to fill first if it even thinks of tagging along side the 6ppc
Hahaha..

 

[SD guy]

That little 6mm arc has some big ass shoes to fill first if it even thinks of tagging along side the 6ppc
Hahaha..

In terms of a deer rifle I have no doubt the bolt action 6mm ARC may do a mighty fine job of filling those shoes.

As a bench rifle perhaps this may be more questionable.

 

[bobcat93]

I talking about proving itself. The 6ppc has a long list of outstanding credentials.
The 6mm arc hasnt proven shit other then its another product in a new shiny package
.oh and it can shoot from an AR platform big freak-n deal.
The AR is nothing more than a complete copy of Eli Whitney concept from 1794. And people are fooled into thinking its something new..breaking boundaries in technology..bahahaha..please!
Does any one think of Anything original themselves, or are the people of our century reduce to cheating, copying, stealing, like a infestation of rats, all fight for a little bite of cheese.
Yeah man im not impressed after the new car smell has worn off, and that new car feel is gone what are you left with?..ill tell you..more of the same we already have..redundancy not even an original design but stolen.
Pathetic.
But its still a cool little cartridge..just nothing new or ground breaking.
How many 6mm cartridges are there?..what makes you think this one is doing some more special then the last dozen that hit the market..

For some reason i was all happy about the 6mm & 22arc..then reality set in.

 

[SD guy]

Wow, Someone has decided to focus on making this a bitter pill. I'll probably never comprehend why or what may have been done better to accomplish the task that the DOD was striving for.

Personally, I wanted for something like a commercially available 6mm Cartridge that fit in a mini action bolt action rifle. I wanted a fast twist for 100ish grain plus, hunting bullets & 90ish grain monolithic hunting bullets. Hornady offered something that came extraordinarily close to exactly what I was wanting with the Sami approved 6mm ARC. For my purposes the only thing I may have wanted different was better brass.

Alpha has went a long way towards making something that was very good even better from this shooters perspective.

Thank you to all who have made the 6mm ARC what it is becoming today. I for one appreciate what we have & how this functions for my purposes. Current factory ammo is a bit different than what I was wanting. Though components & load data are available to allow a rather smooth path to fully achieve my goals.