6BRA load data

[BartsBullets]

I know I can pick out a couple dasher barrels off my rack and compete at the highest level. There is no doubt. At least for a match/weekend. But at the same time, I could pick ANY of my BRA barrels, and even Bart could shoot!


Tom

Tom is exactly right!

Here an excellent example of Dasher vs 6BRA. The 2017 1000 yard Nationals at Whitehorse. In HG Tom Mousel (The Mouse) and I were Squadded on the same rely with just one bench between us! Tom was the reigning IBS 1000 yard Champion while this was only my second 1000 yard match Ever! So in Hg this was a true comparison.

Tom wussed out and shot his Dasher while I shot the 6BRA. So With only one 1000 yard match under my belt and a 6BRA tuned at 100 yards, My HG agg was nearly an inch better then Toms. This is a prefect example why the 6BRA is better then a Dasher. It’s just a better Bow&Arrow!

Bart

P.S.
@tom

 

[FrankG]

Thanks for posting Frank.
I am using the same reamer that I own on all barrels for the past year. Essentially a no turn neck with a 120 freebore based on the Alex Wheeler spec. Same smith, same lathe, same barrel length, same matching impact actions, same cleaning regimen, all barrels are broken in (at least 300 rounds), all barrels are 7.5 twist

My sample size thus far has been three krieger 4 groove .237 barrels 28" straight tapers
And one of your 5R .237 barrels 28" straight taper (Maybe you can help boost my sample size here!)
I am only going off of what I know based on what I had ordered. It would be interesting to see where these fall in relation to each other on the fourth decimal place.
(You are welcome to my worn kriegers if you needed)

The bartlein with a 105 (newer lots) hybrids are averaging at 2915 with 30.2 gr H4895/ F205M
Vs. the 4 groove kriegers average around 2930, 2935, 2925 between the three I have had with the same 30.2 gr H4895/ F205M
AVG DA in texas has been around 2000 FT
All remain single digit to low teen ES

Of note - I have found your 5R barrel (again sample size of one) to true with a slightly higher G7 vs. the 4 groove kriegers. (281 G7 vs. 279)
I chalked it up to potentially a bit less jacket disruption which also might be related to the slightly slower velocity.

Arm017, Thanks for posting back!

The difference between the Kriegers you have and our barrel from what your saying is 15-20fps. faster. I say up to 100fps is the individuality of the barrel itself. That being said 15-20fps is nothing. My guess is and if you want....send me one of the Kriegers when it's toast. Or at a min. cut off say about 6" of the muzzle end. Will measure it for the bore and groove size to the 4th decimal place. When the 5R of ours is toast do the same thing and will measure that one. If I had to guess.....our barrel on the groove (groove size has a bigger effect on pressures and velocities then the bore)....is that let's say the Kriegers are at .2431" on groove size and our barrel is at .2433". That .0002" difference could be the reason why. You start getting closer to the min. size like .2430" it will bump pressures and can bump velocities.....and we could measure both barrels and they could be dead nuts even and not tell us anything. Again though 15-20fps is nothing.

5R and slightly higher BC numbers from what you are seeing. This is totally possible from what you are saying. Earlier this year both Hornady and Sierra have confirmed that the 5R rifling does help fight bullet failure. I've maintained now for several years that the odd number of lands and grooves distorts and upsets the bullet jackets less vs. a even groove barrel. The 5R riflng the lands don't directly oppose one another and inconjunction with the gentler angles on the sides of the lands they possibly don't cut as much of a sharp edge into the bullet jacket as well. So if it's distorting and upsetting the bullet less this could possibly (I say possibly) help the BC. I do feel though that the air on the side of the bullet when in flight is dead air and doesn't effect it as much. Maybe it's helping the bullet cut thru the air better some how? I'll put a call into a couple of places that use the test barrels and ask a couple of questions and see what other data I can get.

All of the test barrels that we have made in 5R style rifling (actual ammunition pressure and velocity test barrels) and we've done the matching Saami spec. for caliber but in the Saami spec. style grooves)....all the data I've gotten back is there is no difference in terms of velocity between them and no difference in practical real world accuracy. We've done calibers for example in .300wm in 5R and Saami spec. 6 groove for the test barrels....and we've done stuff like 6.5CM, .308win, 6CM, .338 Lapua, .300 Norma, 5.56mm, 7.62mm and even in calibers where there either still isn't or wasn't a standard at one time....like in 6.5x47 Lapua, 6 Dasher, 6x47 Lapua and etc...

An interesting fact about the 6XC factory spec. is a 4 groove barrel 1-8 twist with a 50/50 land to groove ratio which is out of the norm and the bore size is spec'd at .2362" and a .2441" groove size plus the .0005" tolerance. So it has a tight bore per say but a loose groove.

Later, Frank

 

[tom]

View attachment 1118787

Tom is exactly right!

Here an excellent example of Dasher vs 6BRA. The 2017 1000 yard Nationals at Whitehorse. In HG Tom Mousel (The Mouse) and I were Squadded on the same rely with just one bench between us! Tom was the reigning IBS 1000 yard Champion while this was only my second 1000 yard match Ever! So in Hg this was a true comparison.

Tom wussed out and shot his Dasher while I shot the 6BRA. So With only one 1000 yard match under my belt and a 6BRA tuned at 100 yards, My HG agg was nearly an inch better then Toms. This is a prefect example why the 6BRA is better then a Dasher. It’s just a better Bow&Arrow!

Bart

P.S.
@tom

And that dasher was my BEST ever. Even by this match you pointed to at 2,200 rounds. That dasher did agg 2nd in two gun overalls at two 1,000 yard nationals, and set a few records itself through it's life. David and myself BOTH killed that rifles previously held records this year with about 5 different BRA barrels, and 2 different bullets, 2 different lots of 4895, and even a target on 8208 mixed in.

I haven't chatted with @Torge yet, but Shawn and myself so far are planning to come to 600 yard nationals. Neither of us have shot 600 ever before, so hopefully the raining 600 yard SOY can show us how it's done! @BartsBullets


Tom

 

[BartsBullets]

And that dasher was my BEST ever. Even by this match you pointed to at 2,200 rounds. That dasher did agg 2nd in two gun overalls at two 1,000 yard nationals, and set a few records itself through it's life. David and myself BOTH killed that rifles previously held records this year with about 5 different BRA barrels, and 2 different bullets, 2 different lots of 4895, and even a target on 8208 mixed in.

I haven't chatted with @Torge yet, but Shawn and myself so far are planning to come to 600 yard nationals. Neither of us have shot 600 ever before, so hopefully the raining 600 yard SOY can show us how it's done! @BartsBullets


Tom

Awesome! I’m looking forward to it! Hell last year a 600 yard guy won the 1000 yard Nationals! No telling maybe a 1000 yard guy can win the 600 yard Nationals!

And thats 2018 SOY AND CURRENT 2019 Front Runner!

 

[urbanrifleman]

At some point, after reading these posts, if anyone said "this barrel and action wins and everything else sucks" they would seem kind of foolish. You guys just admitted that its kind of a crapshoot of barrels and cartridges, bullets, powders, etc etc

 

[Evan]

At some point, after reading these posts, if anyone said "this barrel and action wins and everything else sucks" they would seem kind of foolish. You guys just admitted that its kind of a crapshoot of barrels and cartridges, bullets, powders, etc etc

I don't think we've been reading the same thread. All the very competitive guys shooting 6 BRA here are unanimously saying every BRA barrel they have has shot better than their best Dasher barrels.

Has anyone given a real try at shooting point blank with flat base bullets and a slow twist? Can the 6 BRA challenge the PPC crown in 100/200?

 

[JohnMill]

Did you change powder lots? I have a batch of H4895 that is significantly hotter then my old stuff.

Bart

Zackly why I don't like 4895. You never know what burn rate they got in mind this time. I'm not that patient (guess that shows, huh?) My hat's off to the guys that make it work.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I don't think we've been reading the same thread. All the very competitive guys shooting 6 BRA here are unanimously saying every BRA barrel they have has shot better than their best Dasher barrels.

Has anyone given a real try at shooting point blank with flat base bullets and a slow twist? Can the 6 BRA challenge the PPC crown in 100/200?

Oh I'm not arguing that the bra isn't the king or whatever. I'm just saying that even within that constraint, you can see the best shooters are still saying it comes down to a Hummer of a barrel the perfect load a perfect lot of powder the perfect bullet etc etc etc

 

[BartsBullets]

Oh I'm not arguing that the bra isn't the king or whatever. I'm just saying that even within that constraint, you can see the best shooters are still saying it comes down to a Hummer of a barrel the perfect load a perfect lot of powder the perfect bullet etc etc etc

Yeah I thought you were replying to a different thread myself! Kinda still do!

Everyone is looking for the best equipment but Ultimately it comes down to the shooter!
It takes a lot of dedication and hard work to figure out how to get the most out of your equipment.

I think Tom is saying since he switched to the 6BRA nearly all of his barrels have been great shooters, years of shooting the Dasher only yielded a couple.

You might beat me, but you’re not going to out work me!

Bart

 

[6BRAckley]

"...you can see the best shooters are still saying it comes down to a Hummer of a barrel the perfect load a perfect lot of powder the perfect bullet etc etc etc..."

That certainly isn't my read of this thread at all. In fact it is quite the opposite. Tom said he had a NUMBER of different BRA barrels that shot as well or better than even his BEST dasher barrel. Yes, every barrel needs to be tuned well to get the top level accuracy out of it.

 

[BartsBullets]

Back on topic! Anyone here shoot much IMR 8208 in the 6BRA! I played with some the other day and it shot quite well around 31.5!

I’m curious how temp sensitive it is!

Bart

 

[newbieshooter]

Back on topic! Anyone here shoot much IMR 8208 in the 6BRA! I played with some the other day and it shot quite well around 31.5!

I’m curious how temp sensitive it is!

Bart

Yes, I shot XBR 8208 (and H4895) out of two different barrels at 2019 NBRSA 600/1000 Nationals. I don't know enough about the temp sensitivity though....just what I've read here on AS.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2009/10/hodgdon-releases-impressive-new-imr-8208-xbr-powder/

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/01/shot-show-report-hodgdon-talks-about-imr-8208-xbr/

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Yes, 8208 is another good one. What speeds are you seeing with that charge? Thats really hot, most end up mid around 30.5 +/-

 

[BartsBullets]

Yes, 8208 is another good one. What speeds are you seeing with that charge? Thats really hot, most end up mid around 30.5 +/-

With the batch I have 2970. Shot some nice little 3 shot groups. Actually one of the best I’ve ever shot.

 

[Tim Singleton]

You talking about the XBR stuff?

 

[BartsBullets]

You talking about the XBR stuff?

Tim,

That's the one!

 

[tom]

8208 shoots good but will need retuning more than 4895. The velocities WON'T let you know that, but the vertical at 1000 will.

@urbanrifleman

I guess what I was saying, or should have said is this, and this is it for me I need to get brass ready....

The dasher will in fact win any match anywhere any time. It can, and has shot some of the smallest groups ever shot.

The BRA will agg better than anything we've tried to date. When we look at season long aggs, when it comes down to keeping it together on multiple weekends, it is king for now. It's been obvious enough to me, I'm thinking of trying something different to see if there's more yet out there. My opinion wasn't as concrete after trying just one barrel. But after a few myself, then watching @Northridge switch and shoot personal bests. Then watching @blaster50 switch and shoot personal bests. Then watching @Torge switch and shoot personal bests.....you get the idea.

There's no doubt that the aggs achieved with BRA will be a lot easier to beat with other BRA than with dashers. 3 years have proved that to me being on the line witnessing it.

It costed me 65 bucks for a sizing die that exactly matches my chambers to learn this. I still use my dasher seater for either one. So switching back would be beyond easy, but I think I'll just not switch back.


Tom

 

[urbanrifleman]

It's a great thread.

I am not worthy... hahahaha

Proceeeeddd

 

[B Allen]

Here is what my BRA 28 inch Brux 7.83 twist did this morning. It is a ladder test at 600 yards berger hybrid 105 H-4895 started at 29.8 grains end at 30.7 one tenth of a grain each shot

 

[Rtheurer]

30.2 it is then... Love the shot marker for doing a Ladder test...Extremely valuable tool. Enhanced if you set up a Lab Radar next to it.

Thanks for sharing